In a letter to the recently appointed US Director of National Intelligence (DNI) Tulsi Gabbard, senator Ron Wyden of Colorada and representative Andy Biggs of Arizona bluntly ask the administration to kick the UK out of the 65-year-old UK-USA signals intelligence sharing agreement, commonly known as Five Eyes, if they do not now withdraw the demand to Apple.
Back when I could actually DM journalists on Twitter about errors in articles they would sometimes tell me that editors introduced the errors without their knowledge.
For example, an article would mention a county in the US and the editor would add information with county population and state. But the editor would mistake the county for one with the same name in completely different state.
He could just invite Russian operatives to his resort and specify which restroom they should use during their stay. That would have been the much more low key way, but of course 2.0 is about not being low key
The only people who should have mandatory decryption on all communications are government officials, so that the democracy can be assured of preserving the records required by law.
Actual decryption of such records should be very difficult, with enormous audit logging.
I'm terrified what happens to democracy when the people in power are all using Signal. When the president goes around ripping up official documents he doesn't like, or making up read-outs that fabricate a story. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/trump-documents-national-arc...
there is a theory of real politik that says, when the laws actually touch the lives of the lawmakers, that is when the decision changes.. something like that.. How many US Congress members have iPhones? How many have concerns about others reading their msgs ?
It’s probably in the interest of NATO, G7, and Five Eyes to not publicly announce removal attempts for the US. That said, at this point they would be silly if they didn’t shadow ban the US and make alternate arrangements without it included.
Feeding incorrect information to the US is an advantage now, so the US will be made to believe it’s involved.
I mean, our CIA, DIA, and NSA are so fundamentally compromised, I agree.
It doesn't matter if the President is or is not some mole agent. Everything he has done in the first two months is a wet dream for Putin. Across the board. Isolate/sever ties with EU and NATO. Threaten allies. Disrupt FBI, CIA, DIA, NSA with mass firings and incompetent leaders. Clear out the military leadership. Threaten Ukraine. Say Ukraine caused the war. Negotiate "peace" without Ukraine. Pro-Putin Musk rooting around with access rights everywhere. Starting trade wars. Disrupt EV/alt energy to extend primacy of petroleum. Cut off funding of Ukraine.
So it should be assumed that Putin owns the White House and the US intelligence apparatus. Either that, or any intelligence defense is fundamentally compromised.
Ukraine-Russia is basically a fight for the integrity of Europe against Putin. From the perspective of the West, it is a slam dunk to support Ukraine against Putin, a despicable evil militaristic autocrat.
Ukraine isn't paid to be a thorn in Russia's side lobbing rockets and sending suicide bombers. It's not a terrorist state.
Palestine-Israel is a tragedy of geopolitical manipulation by Iran, Egypt, UAE, and the Sunni-Shia divide, and of course the US. On one side, it's a bunch of mafia terrorists supported by Iran and other "bad" people. On the other side is an extremist right wing government that was politically enabled by Palestinian terrorism and the inherent tribal hatred in the region. Israel is essentially a democracy. What those voters voted in is another issue, but we're dealing with that here too.
The real tragedy of the Palestinians is that the world let them think they cared about them. They don't. We are entering a world of general conflict and tension, one where simultaneously oil will mean less and less. I care way more about Ukraine and Russia than the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The Palestinians survive on external aid almost exclusively. That aid is going to dry up in the next decade, and ... I see nothing but humanitarian disaster to follow. The Palestinians would be wise to throw themselves at the mercy of Israel and lay down all weapons, it is the only way they won't mass starve in the next ten years.
I imagine NZ is very unlikely to opt out (even though the US surely snarfs our private data and abuses it to our detriment). This century with modern technology and social media, the US has incredible insight into private NZ information regardless of NZ desires.
The US monitoring Angela Merkel is the tip of the iceberg.
I was directly told our intelligence services were given TEMPEST equipment in late 80's or early 90's. That's one benefit of an alliance with the US.
There was a historical scandal where NZ released a search term NZ had used to gain political advantage over a friendly country. I'm feeling a bit 1984 because I can't find the details at the moment.
I imagine our intelligence service is quite happy to use XKEYSCORE.
There's also this quote: "Trying to get out of the Five Eyes is - how can I put it? - it's like trying to get out of the mafia."
It's not a subject I know a lot about: so my opinions are likely extremely ignorant.
One of our prime ministers revealed that Australian politicians knew more than most of our own elected politicians in the 80's about the topic of intelligence gathering in NZ by the US.
Good modern background on NZ's role in the UKUSA agreement: https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/pe... which basically says that NZ is just another Pacific Island when it comes to being manipulated by intelligent Chinese interests.
I was always told that Fives Eyes was about each country watching the others backs by doing spying on their citizens that countries couldn't do internally. I remember there was that MP in NZ who was blocked for CCP connection by the US IIRC.
I can see a world where the US would want that to happen. If they kick the US out then the US will be free to spy on the others without needing the loopholes that 5 Eyes created in the first place.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard this month. (Yes, I am aware of what the rest of the month has been like.)
Either these people have no idea how valuable Five Eyes is, or they know but are still willing to destroy it in a temper tantrum or an attempt at a power play. Either way, they need fired yesterday.
Why is your ire directed at the US here? Spying on each others citizens is one thing, but the UK is attempting to both prevent the US from having meaningful consumer encryption and destroy trust in US corporations.
I’m a bit shocked that an ostensibly tech site seems fine with the UK trying to destroy consumer encryption globally.
Is this administration using reverse psychology on the Europeans? The way they treat Europe makes Europeans like things they did not like before.
Some Europeans now like nuclear weapons, surveillance, the five eyes, getting real tough on Russia. Sounds exactly like a traditional conservative agenda.
Everything this administration does is a psychological game. Sometimes there are indicators, e.g., today the UN security council rubber stamped the Russia friendly resolution. This may or may not mean that the peace efforts are serious.
(Incidentally: Dear Tulsi, the US has been spying on the EU for decades and has special arrangements like access to all EU SWIFT transactions. But I guess you knew that already.)
I want to know where the fuck Colarada is.
Also, Wyden represents Oregon.
Back when I could actually DM journalists on Twitter about errors in articles they would sometimes tell me that editors introduced the errors without their knowledge.
For example, an article would mention a county in the US and the editor would add information with county population and state. But the editor would mistake the county for one with the same name in completely different state.
The first sentence reads like an SNL sketch.
It’s one of the four corner states … Colorada, Arizani, Now Mexico and Utoh
The real question: do we invite another country to take their seat, or do we rename the arrangement to Four Eyes?
at least there’d be an obvious new logo.
okay, now that's worth doing just for the logo
Clearly Trump wants Russia to join 5 eyes.
He could just invite Russian operatives to his resort and specify which restroom they should use during their stay. That would have been the much more low key way, but of course 2.0 is about not being low key
He will simply provide StarLink terminals, with a patch cable crossing classification boundaries somewhere internally.
Trump and Putin can have their own and call it something trendy like "My Opia".
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2025/02/24/fbis-new-...
The only people who should have mandatory decryption on all communications are government officials, so that the democracy can be assured of preserving the records required by law.
Actual decryption of such records should be very difficult, with enormous audit logging.
I'm terrified what happens to democracy when the people in power are all using Signal. When the president goes around ripping up official documents he doesn't like, or making up read-outs that fabricate a story. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/03/trump-documents-national-arc...
if the government can unencrypt in any capacity whatsoever there is effective zero encryption at play. US are already failing physical audits lol
It won't. All countries are already doing this to each other, Five Eyes or not. The US does exactly this to the UK.
https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/03/politics/germany-media-spying...
It would be a bit bizarre. The US relies on the UK to do half their domestic spying for them.
There are 3 other sets of eyes that could pick up the slack.
It’s five eyes, not ten eyes!
Presumably that's why they're asking - doesn't seem like the congressmen like the UK having access to Apple users' data
there is a theory of real politik that says, when the laws actually touch the lives of the lawmakers, that is when the decision changes.. something like that.. How many US Congress members have iPhones? How many have concerns about others reading their msgs ?
Pretty sure the other four should just kick the US out at this point
As should NATO.
Calm down there Ivan.
The way things are going, I can see the other 4 countries kicking the US out. Or maybe forming their own Org and not feed anything to the US.
For each % increase in tariffs, reduce sharing by that %.
Silly. It's the 0.0000001% of the most valuable data (to the US) that matters.
Apply it to just the key stuff then.
It’s probably in the interest of NATO, G7, and Five Eyes to not publicly announce removal attempts for the US. That said, at this point they would be silly if they didn’t shadow ban the US and make alternate arrangements without it included.
Feeding incorrect information to the US is an advantage now, so the US will be made to believe it’s involved.
I mean, our CIA, DIA, and NSA are so fundamentally compromised, I agree.
It doesn't matter if the President is or is not some mole agent. Everything he has done in the first two months is a wet dream for Putin. Across the board. Isolate/sever ties with EU and NATO. Threaten allies. Disrupt FBI, CIA, DIA, NSA with mass firings and incompetent leaders. Clear out the military leadership. Threaten Ukraine. Say Ukraine caused the war. Negotiate "peace" without Ukraine. Pro-Putin Musk rooting around with access rights everywhere. Starting trade wars. Disrupt EV/alt energy to extend primacy of petroleum. Cut off funding of Ukraine.
So it should be assumed that Putin owns the White House and the US intelligence apparatus. Either that, or any intelligence defense is fundamentally compromised.
This!
It's worth noting that all those things you mentioned about Ukraine are standard practice for Palestine and no one bats an eye.
Ukraine-Russia is basically a fight for the integrity of Europe against Putin. From the perspective of the West, it is a slam dunk to support Ukraine against Putin, a despicable evil militaristic autocrat.
Ukraine isn't paid to be a thorn in Russia's side lobbing rockets and sending suicide bombers. It's not a terrorist state.
Palestine-Israel is a tragedy of geopolitical manipulation by Iran, Egypt, UAE, and the Sunni-Shia divide, and of course the US. On one side, it's a bunch of mafia terrorists supported by Iran and other "bad" people. On the other side is an extremist right wing government that was politically enabled by Palestinian terrorism and the inherent tribal hatred in the region. Israel is essentially a democracy. What those voters voted in is another issue, but we're dealing with that here too.
The real tragedy of the Palestinians is that the world let them think they cared about them. They don't. We are entering a world of general conflict and tension, one where simultaneously oil will mean less and less. I care way more about Ukraine and Russia than the Israel-Palestine conflict.
The Palestinians survive on external aid almost exclusively. That aid is going to dry up in the next decade, and ... I see nothing but humanitarian disaster to follow. The Palestinians would be wise to throw themselves at the mercy of Israel and lay down all weapons, it is the only way they won't mass starve in the next ten years.
New Zealand bends over for the US.
I imagine NZ is very unlikely to opt out (even though the US surely snarfs our private data and abuses it to our detriment). This century with modern technology and social media, the US has incredible insight into private NZ information regardless of NZ desires.
The US monitoring Angela Merkel is the tip of the iceberg.
I was directly told our intelligence services were given TEMPEST equipment in late 80's or early 90's. That's one benefit of an alliance with the US.
There was a historical scandal where NZ released a search term NZ had used to gain political advantage over a friendly country. I'm feeling a bit 1984 because I can't find the details at the moment.
I imagine our intelligence service is quite happy to use XKEYSCORE.
There's also this quote: "Trying to get out of the Five Eyes is - how can I put it? - it's like trying to get out of the mafia."
It's not a subject I know a lot about: so my opinions are likely extremely ignorant.
One of our prime ministers revealed that Australian politicians knew more than most of our own elected politicians in the 80's about the topic of intelligence gathering in NZ by the US.
Good modern background on NZ's role in the UKUSA agreement: https://www.internationalaffairs.org.au/australianoutlook/pe... which basically says that NZ is just another Pacific Island when it comes to being manipulated by intelligent Chinese interests.
A bit of background from Snowdon: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/edward-snowden-leaked...
I was always told that Fives Eyes was about each country watching the others backs by doing spying on their citizens that countries couldn't do internally. I remember there was that MP in NZ who was blocked for CCP connection by the US IIRC.
I can see a world where the US would want that to happen. If they kick the US out then the US will be free to spy on the others without needing the loopholes that 5 Eyes created in the first place.
That's the stupidest thing I've heard this month. (Yes, I am aware of what the rest of the month has been like.)
Either these people have no idea how valuable Five Eyes is, or they know but are still willing to destroy it in a temper tantrum or an attempt at a power play. Either way, they need fired yesterday.
Why is your ire directed at the US here? Spying on each others citizens is one thing, but the UK is attempting to both prevent the US from having meaningful consumer encryption and destroy trust in US corporations.
I’m a bit shocked that an ostensibly tech site seems fine with the UK trying to destroy consumer encryption globally.
Because this discussion is about the US response, which is completely ham-handed and destructive.
The UK position is also appalling, but that's not what we're discussing here.
Is this administration using reverse psychology on the Europeans? The way they treat Europe makes Europeans like things they did not like before.
Some Europeans now like nuclear weapons, surveillance, the five eyes, getting real tough on Russia. Sounds exactly like a traditional conservative agenda.
Everything this administration does is a psychological game. Sometimes there are indicators, e.g., today the UN security council rubber stamped the Russia friendly resolution. This may or may not mean that the peace efforts are serious.
(Incidentally: Dear Tulsi, the US has been spying on the EU for decades and has special arrangements like access to all EU SWIFT transactions. But I guess you knew that already.)