I don't know the answer using the built-in VM attributes (I mean I'd guess probably, but I don't know how if so) but there's always nixos-generators for making VM images. Definitely used this for deploying VMs to cloud providers, haven't tried the VMWare one yet though.
Is there something about this makes it red hat specific. An OS is just a specific collection of files in the end. Whether things are installed with rpm or Deb shouldn't matter?
The project roadmap actually includes plans to expand beyond Red Hat family distributions - there's active work to add support for Debian/Ubuntu and potentially other distros.
I was going to try this to perhaps use it in production. Turns out the RHEL clones like Alma or Rocky doesn't have this thing in production-ready grade. All options you have now are owned by Red Hat themselves.
OCI images providing a set of cached kernel RPMs and extra kernel modules to Universal Blue images. Used for better hardware support and consistent build process.
nvidia-container-toolkit (CDI) is necessary for --gpus=all to do CUDA and libEGL 3D with podman. Is this also already installed in bazzite?
rpm-ostree inherits work in ostree-rs-ext to create “container native ostree” functionality. This elevates OCI/docker containers to be natively supported as a transport mechanism for bootable operating systems.
I think it means simplification of complexity and unnecessary re-duplication.
Huh, this is kinda wild. So for esxi images, this would seem to beat/potentially be simpler than the traditional Packer + interacting with an ISO on esxi infra, yes?
Arguably yes. I think the big improvement is that an upgrade is really just switching from image A to image B, rather than dozens to hundreds of individual package transactions. Furthermore parts of the system are fully mutable (e.g. /etc) allowing you to run automation against a system post install for more customisation.
... and it works fabulously. I have been running Bluefin (same folks as Bazzite) from one of these templates for about 6 months and it has been a near on flawless experience. I have moved from Fedora 40->41->42 without having to touch a traditional "upgrade".
If I had to wager a guess, bootc might get more actual use now that it's supported in RHEL 9.6 and 10 as "image mode". It's an exciting piece of technology, especially from the perspective of a platform engineer.
Also, bootc is a basis for the Universal Blue family of distros, especially Bazzite, which is very popular with gamers.
I've used this to bootstrap bootc-based Fedora on my workstations. I've got a CI job that builds updated container images every night, a simple `rpm-ostree upgrade` pulls in the new image and `systemctl reboot` activates it.
What I like about this is always having a known working image I can quickly swap to, particularly for the machine with an nvidia card.
I've always been hesitant to use this method over debootstrap: the Ubuntu container images ("FROM ubuntu:20.04") are created from a tarball that Ubuntu's convoluted CI system spits out and I'm not confident I understand if it's somehow suitable only for a container and not for real hardware.
However beware that they break backwards compatibility almost every 6 months. This is probably the most backwards-incompable project I know, you can't rely that the minor version update won't break your projects.
We also have a GUI for trying this out!
https://github.com/podman-desktop/extension-bootc
We’re also starting to see other projects adopt a “OS as a Container image” such as Bazzite: https://bazzite.gg/ using bootc :)
Feel free to ask any questions!
Why swap from the OSTree storage to OCI? Doesn't that negate the space saving offered by OSTree having a content addressable store.
By using zstd:chunked, we get those atomic diffs at each layer using an enabled container registry. So diffs are still over the wire.
You can also achieve this with your current system
I use nixos btw
Can this do vmdk format?
I don't know the answer using the built-in VM attributes (I mean I'd guess probably, but I don't know how if so) but there's always nixos-generators for making VM images. Definitely used this for deploying VMs to cloud providers, haven't tried the VMWare one yet though.
https://github.com/nix-community/nixos-generators
Yes, you can target VMDK, AMIs, Azure, ...
`nixos-rebuild build-image --image-variant vmware`
See https://nixos.org/manual/nixos/stable/#sec-image-nixos-rebui...
...as long as the images are in the Red Hat family (Fedora, CentOS Stream, RHEL).
Is there something about this makes it red hat specific. An OS is just a specific collection of files in the end. Whether things are installed with rpm or Deb shouldn't matter?
You'd think so:) Unfortunately the current implementation hardcodes calls to dnf: https://github.com/osbuild/bootc-image-builder/issues/869
The project roadmap actually includes plans to expand beyond Red Hat family distributions - there's active work to add support for Debian/Ubuntu and potentially other distros.
I was going to try this to perhaps use it in production. Turns out the RHEL clones like Alma or Rocky doesn't have this thing in production-ready grade. All options you have now are owned by Red Hat themselves.
Just ask Neil Gompa to ship it. He doesn’t love it, but he helps everyone who asks him for advice.
Booting Docker images is fairly straightforward, I wrote about how to do this manually some years ago: https://blog.davidv.dev/posts/docker-based-images-on-baremet...
Ublue also builds Ubuntu versions of a lot of this.
bootc is a CNCF project now, so anybody can get on board.
Does bootc-image-builder build Native Containers?
Do Native Containers work as VM images that can be stored in an OCI Image/Artifact/Package Registry?
I've been mentioning Native Containers since I realized that was how bazzite works now.
Is vagrant necessary anymore if host, vm, and container images can all be signed and stored in an OCI Image store?
From https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44137501 re: Firecracker and Microsandbox VMs :
ublue-os/image-template: https://github.com/ublue-os/image-template :
ublue-os/akmods has nvidia GPU drivers, nvidia-open, zfs: https://github.com/ublue-os/akmods :
nvidia-container-toolkit (CDI) is necessary for --gpus=all to do CUDA and libEGL 3D with podman. Is this also already installed in bazzite?
ublue-os/toolboxes: "quadlets and systemd service units for management", boxkit : https://github.com/ublue-os/toolboxes#images
ublue-os/devcontainer .devcontainer/devcontainer.json: https://github.com/ublue-os/devcontainer/blob/main/src/base/...
It looks like the Just Justfile 40-nvidia.just has moved due to image topology simplification? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39364975 :
What does "native containers" mean in this context?
From https://coreos.github.io/rpm-ostree/container/#ostree-native... :
I think it means simplification of complexity and unnecessary re-duplication.
Huh, this is kinda wild. So for esxi images, this would seem to beat/potentially be simpler than the traditional Packer + interacting with an ISO on esxi infra, yes?
Arguably yes. I think the big improvement is that an upgrade is really just switching from image A to image B, rather than dozens to hundreds of individual package transactions. Furthermore parts of the system are fully mutable (e.g. /etc) allowing you to run automation against a system post install for more customisation.
I've been very excited on progress on bootc. I've tried to make my own coreos distro and its quite complicated in comparison.
I've used this to start from a minimal base and added what I've needed on top. Best of all, updates are delivered via a container registry.
Universal Blue (Bluefin etc.) has a reusable GitHub template.
https://github.com/ublue-os/image-template
... and it works fabulously. I have been running Bluefin (same folks as Bazzite) from one of these templates for about 6 months and it has been a near on flawless experience. I have moved from Fedora 40->41->42 without having to touch a traditional "upgrade".
https://projectbluefin.io/
I wonder which gets more actual usage, this project or linuxkit.
Does anyone have experience worth sharing with both?
If I had to wager a guess, bootc might get more actual use now that it's supported in RHEL 9.6 and 10 as "image mode". It's an exciting piece of technology, especially from the perspective of a platform engineer.
Also, bootc is a basis for the Universal Blue family of distros, especially Bazzite, which is very popular with gamers.
yeah you're probably right -- going forward the usage is likely going to be a lot higher, at the very least.
I thought of the underlying tech for those other distros being ostree more than anything but this is the better interpretation.
I've used this to bootstrap bootc-based Fedora on my workstations. I've got a CI job that builds updated container images every night, a simple `rpm-ostree upgrade` pulls in the new image and `systemctl reboot` activates it.
What I like about this is always having a known working image I can quickly swap to, particularly for the machine with an nvidia card.
I'd love to have something like this for embedded system images, like for Raspberry Pi deployments.
Totally. Appliances are perfect candidates for this tech.
Roman Shtylman has an example of using a Dockerfile to produce a rootfs for the Jetson Nano: https://github.com/defunctzombie/jetson-nano-image-maker (2022)
I've always been hesitant to use this method over debootstrap: the Ubuntu container images ("FROM ubuntu:20.04") are created from a tarball that Ubuntu's convoluted CI system spits out and I'm not confident I understand if it's somehow suitable only for a container and not for real hardware.
The alternative is mkosi from systemd developers
https://github.com/systemd/mkosi
However beware that they break backwards compatibility almost every 6 months. This is probably the most backwards-incompable project I know, you can't rely that the minor version update won't break your projects.