Can anyone tell if me there's ever been a substantial conversatino about this topic on HN? I see occasional threads that more or less whisper about it but never a major post where people really discuss it openly.
Its pretty much impossible to have a substantial discussion because the facts (beyond the fact of the allegations) are opaque. Its a highly emotionally charged issue involving a divisive figure where pretty much no one has any access to useful facts. Discussions are destined to be all noise, no signal.
Harvey Weinstein had evidence and was convicted of rape.
Kevin Spacey had many people accuse him. But he was cleared of all charges, and no-one seems to have evidence. Honestly, I suspect he was an innocent victim of #MeToo (an overshot of the direction that rightfully convicted people like Weinstein), and may get a revival soon (the last charges were settled in March, see the vibe of https://old.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1q45z9e/cmv_n...)
Altman has an accusation from one person with no evidence.
That wasn't really the vibe in 2016 with Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey.
It's not a vibe, its a factual description of the circumstances.
Not sure what the comparison to Weinstein and Spacey in the year prior to the main accusations against either becoming public is supposed to be about, but the accusations against either, when they became public, were substantially different in scope and evidence publicly available to those against Altman. Which is not a statement on the merits of the accusations against Altman, but it is relevant to the potential for meaningful, substantive public discussion.
Nobody wants to be subject of a false SA accusation, leave alone something as dramatic as this.
So It's very natural for people to give benefit of doubt and stay silent when these allegations have not been proven. Even those who absolutely hate Sam Altman for other reasons.
Using eyewitnesses to corroborate as much of her story as possible, plus any artifacts generated during the years of abuse (medical records, therapist notes, texts/letters to friends, diary entries, etc.).
Altman’s ouster, which is effective immediately, follows “a deliberative review process by the board, which concluded that he was not consistently candid in his communications with the board, hindering its ability to exercise its responsibilities,” the board said in a blog post Friday.
He is well known to be morally troubled— his postings here over the years gave off that vibe for most who paid attention— but even if he were a hypersexual psychopath or something like that, it doesn’t prove he molested his little sister all those times. There’s a lot of grey area in childhood sexuality, and Sam seems like a “grey area” sort of guy fwiw. He is probably mostly innocent.
It’s he said she said. And in this case we’re being asked to believe the very wealthy and powerful older brother over a younger sister who has to rely on “the family” for money and who “the family” claims is “mentally unwell”.
Why is that hard for you to believe? Do you think having wealth or success eliminates you from sexually assaulting others??? I'm sorry have you read the Epstein files??
Our current president is an adjudicated Rapist found guilty of raping a woman by a jury. 25 women have come forward and publicly accused him of sexual assault. Let me guess you think he is innocent as well? 3 of his cabinet members have sexual assault/pedophilia claims against them.
Do you know what the percentage of rape claims being false is? Less than 6%...and thats the high ceiling,the actual percentage is 3%.
Do you have any idea the damage being sexually abused causes? Especially by a sibling? It's a lifetime sentence of trauma.
Annie Altman was a pre-med student at Tufts.
You can read text messages where she asks for $45 to pay a therapy bill and Sam tells her no,you'll just have to work harder or figure it out.
When her father passed in 2018 her mother and brothers hid the will from her bc her father left his 401k to her. A year later a lawyer contacted her to tell her about the inheritance. But then her brother Sam hired his mother a lawyer to file a challenge to the 401k. Even though Mr.Altman had been separated for over a decade from his wife,she never signed the divorce papers do thru a law for surviving spouses she has filed to claim the 401k.
Sam Altman has been described by numerous associates as a sociopath who is morally bankrupt. He is a habitual liar who constantly pitted employees against eachother. He forced workers to sign ndas stating they were not allowed to say anything critical of OpenAi or him.
He was a huge donor to the pedophile in the White House and continues to give him money and support him.People who abuse and assault keep company with those who do as well.
Your comment is EXACTLY the type of victim blaming that got us where we are.
Maybe people on the internet like to slag off anyone rich and famous? The only one there seems evidence for is him being less than candid with the board.
Only evidence? What evidence do you think normally is present from a sexual assault of a child years before?
I would suggest that his support of an adjudicated rapist and accused pedophile who is covering up for a child sex trafficking ring operated by another pedophile that Altman had a known documented relationship with...is a pretty good indicator of his guilt.
Altmans lawyers argued this week that because the alleged abuse happened so long ago the case should be thrown out. They didn't say because Altman is innocent,they said bc it occurred years ago.
Annie Altman is asking for $75,000...that's it.
You can read text messages from Sam Altman refusing to give her $45 for therapy bills.
Altman is described as former associates as a sociopath who is devoid of any morals and lies to attain his desires.
He is suspected of having a former business partner killed.
I don't know how anyone can think his sister would make this up. She was a pre-med student at Tufts. Anybody who suffers sexual abuse from a sibling is going to have ptsd and other emotional & mental health issues.
Altman family has said Annie Altman has mental health challenges, ie. probably a bit nuts, and I don't think supporting Trump proves you are a pedophile.
It's not plagiarized; it's the same article. The Independent licenses articles from wire services like Reuters. It includes the same byline.
Most news actually originates with wire services. News organizations collect the stories that seem relevant to their readership and run them. Very few actually gather news themselves, especially for news outside their immediate domain.
The wire services also gather news from the original news sources (say, a local newspaper writing about news in their area) and licenses it out to others who might be interested. In this case, the journalist worked directly for Reuters.
Reuters is a well-respected source, and about as close as you'll find to getting "just the facts".
The Altman family has said Annie Altman has mental health challenges
I can imagine if you're been raped by your brother during childhood.
But of course now nobody will take her seriously because she has mental problems and Altman is a tech giant.
Not saying she's necessarily true. And you can probably never really find out the truth about this. But I think it's noticeable that there are these issues in their family. And not surprising that heavily traumatized children end up being narcissistic psychopaths.
The film Magnolia dramatizes just such a character. Her father, the perpetrator, is a well-connected, well-respected TV game show host. She's an isolated, mentally unstable drug abuser. Not hard to imagine which person people are incentivized to believe. You're right, we'll probably never know.
Can anyone tell if me there's ever been a substantial conversatino about this topic on HN? I see occasional threads that more or less whisper about it but never a major post where people really discuss it openly.
Its pretty much impossible to have a substantial discussion because the facts (beyond the fact of the allegations) are opaque. Its a highly emotionally charged issue involving a divisive figure where pretty much no one has any access to useful facts. Discussions are destined to be all noise, no signal.
That wasn't really the vibe in 2016 with Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey.
What changed?
They weren't working on the key to break the dependence of the wealthy on the working class.
Weinstein blew open when Ashley Judd and Rose McGowan spoke to the New York Times [0].
That in turn led to more concrete public allegations against Spacey, which he tried to deflect by “choosing to live as a gay man.”
[0]: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/us/harvey-weinstein-haras...
Harvey Weinstein had evidence and was convicted of rape.
Kevin Spacey had many people accuse him. But he was cleared of all charges, and no-one seems to have evidence. Honestly, I suspect he was an innocent victim of #MeToo (an overshot of the direction that rightfully convicted people like Weinstein), and may get a revival soon (the last charges were settled in March, see the vibe of https://old.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1q45z9e/cmv_n...)
Altman has an accusation from one person with no evidence.
It's not a vibe, its a factual description of the circumstances.
Not sure what the comparison to Weinstein and Spacey in the year prior to the main accusations against either becoming public is supposed to be about, but the accusations against either, when they became public, were substantially different in scope and evidence publicly available to those against Altman. Which is not a statement on the merits of the accusations against Altman, but it is relevant to the potential for meaningful, substantive public discussion.
Nobody wants to be subject of a false SA accusation, leave alone something as dramatic as this.
So It's very natural for people to give benefit of doubt and stay silent when these allegations have not been proven. Even those who absolutely hate Sam Altman for other reasons.
Nobody wants to be molested by their older brother either.
How do you propose Annie proves this?
Using eyewitnesses to corroborate as much of her story as possible, plus any artifacts generated during the years of abuse (medical records, therapist notes, texts/letters to friends, diary entries, etc.).
Sam Altman gets accused of raping his own sister.
Sam Altman gets accused of murdering a whistleblower employee.
Sam Altman gets accused of lying and cheating the board and gets ousted.
Bro is either cartoonishly evil or something else.
I haven't seen this claim made before. The reason for his ousting where never cleared up.
The public thing was
I'm not sure there's much info beyond that?
He is well known to be morally troubled— his postings here over the years gave off that vibe for most who paid attention— but even if he were a hypersexual psychopath or something like that, it doesn’t prove he molested his little sister all those times. There’s a lot of grey area in childhood sexuality, and Sam seems like a “grey area” sort of guy fwiw. He is probably mostly innocent.
It’s he said she said. And in this case we’re being asked to believe the very wealthy and powerful older brother over a younger sister who has to rely on “the family” for money and who “the family” claims is “mentally unwell”.
Got it.
What’s the point you are trying to make.
Why is that hard for you to believe? Do you think having wealth or success eliminates you from sexually assaulting others??? I'm sorry have you read the Epstein files?? Our current president is an adjudicated Rapist found guilty of raping a woman by a jury. 25 women have come forward and publicly accused him of sexual assault. Let me guess you think he is innocent as well? 3 of his cabinet members have sexual assault/pedophilia claims against them. Do you know what the percentage of rape claims being false is? Less than 6%...and thats the high ceiling,the actual percentage is 3%. Do you have any idea the damage being sexually abused causes? Especially by a sibling? It's a lifetime sentence of trauma. Annie Altman was a pre-med student at Tufts. You can read text messages where she asks for $45 to pay a therapy bill and Sam tells her no,you'll just have to work harder or figure it out. When her father passed in 2018 her mother and brothers hid the will from her bc her father left his 401k to her. A year later a lawyer contacted her to tell her about the inheritance. But then her brother Sam hired his mother a lawyer to file a challenge to the 401k. Even though Mr.Altman had been separated for over a decade from his wife,she never signed the divorce papers do thru a law for surviving spouses she has filed to claim the 401k. Sam Altman has been described by numerous associates as a sociopath who is morally bankrupt. He is a habitual liar who constantly pitted employees against eachother. He forced workers to sign ndas stating they were not allowed to say anything critical of OpenAi or him. He was a huge donor to the pedophile in the White House and continues to give him money and support him.People who abuse and assault keep company with those who do as well. Your comment is EXACTLY the type of victim blaming that got us where we are.
"There’s a lot of grey area in childhood sexuality"
This one you are seriously going to have to explain to me.
Maybe people on the internet like to slag off anyone rich and famous? The only one there seems evidence for is him being less than candid with the board.
Only evidence? What evidence do you think normally is present from a sexual assault of a child years before? I would suggest that his support of an adjudicated rapist and accused pedophile who is covering up for a child sex trafficking ring operated by another pedophile that Altman had a known documented relationship with...is a pretty good indicator of his guilt. Altmans lawyers argued this week that because the alleged abuse happened so long ago the case should be thrown out. They didn't say because Altman is innocent,they said bc it occurred years ago. Annie Altman is asking for $75,000...that's it. You can read text messages from Sam Altman refusing to give her $45 for therapy bills. Altman is described as former associates as a sociopath who is devoid of any morals and lies to attain his desires. He is suspected of having a former business partner killed. I don't know how anyone can think his sister would make this up. She was a pre-med student at Tufts. Anybody who suffers sexual abuse from a sibling is going to have ptsd and other emotional & mental health issues.
Altman family has said Annie Altman has mental health challenges, ie. probably a bit nuts, and I don't think supporting Trump proves you are a pedophile.
Is this article just plagiarized from the Reuters one from the day before?
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/judge-now-dismisses...
It’s possible. My apologies.
It's not plagiarized; it's the same article. The Independent licenses articles from wire services like Reuters. It includes the same byline.
Most news actually originates with wire services. News organizations collect the stories that seem relevant to their readership and run them. Very few actually gather news themselves, especially for news outside their immediate domain.
The wire services also gather news from the original news sources (say, a local newspaper writing about news in their area) and licenses it out to others who might be interested. In this case, the journalist worked directly for Reuters.
Reuters is a well-respected source, and about as close as you'll find to getting "just the facts".
I can imagine if you're been raped by your brother during childhood.
But of course now nobody will take her seriously because she has mental problems and Altman is a tech giant.
Not saying she's necessarily true. And you can probably never really find out the truth about this. But I think it's noticeable that there are these issues in their family. And not surprising that heavily traumatized children end up being narcissistic psychopaths.
The film Magnolia dramatizes just such a character. Her father, the perpetrator, is a well-connected, well-respected TV game show host. She's an isolated, mentally unstable drug abuser. Not hard to imagine which person people are incentivized to believe. You're right, we'll probably never know.