Thats like the same point the article is making

I think OP's point was that most people are using agenetic coding, but they're ashamed to admit it. They play down and minimise how much they're doing it, roll their eyes at it when talking with friends, and agree just how much nicer it is to write code the "normal" way (like, at a bar! at the dog park! I was sitting at a cafe, reading Knuth, and this gorgeous code just came up and started chatting to me...)

This is certainly the case in the field of bioinformatics right now, so I do feel it's a little apt.

(HN is a bit of a bubble - it's about the only place on the internet where you can be cautiously positive about agenting coding and not be abused.)

When online dating goes well, it quickly turns into ordinary dating.

And I think that's one important difference: with vibe coding you can't cast aside the AI after you've taken the initial step.

People dont like any dating, they want to be past it into a long term healthy relationship mostly. If they could blink and get there they would choose it. So yes. The analogy is even better than even better than stated. Nearly everyone cares about the outcome while very few care and enjoy the process

If someone is doing something as a job... then surely they are, by definition, doing it for money? Otherwise, if they were doing it for fun, as a hobby, then we would call them hobbyists?

I won't cry false analogy but I just have no clue what point you're trying to make.

Are you saying widget makers are sloppy in their craft and only in it for their money?

What did you expect when writing software became a job though?

A friend of a friend quit their job, made woodworking their full time job, and promptly fell out of love with woodworking.

You mean having to do something for your survival starts to suck? You don’t say!

I’ve always been more interested in getting my ideas down. AI is fantastic for this. I can get up to speed in coding projects I want to exist and with careful planning get something decent out and completed in a day.

Can you start naming them? Because most of the life altering ones have certifications, licensures, and continuing education programs when becoming a lawyer/doctor/engineer. Unless you're trying to argue the need to regulate software developers, then I agree completely. For far too long developers have treated products way to poorly and we see what a lack of regulations has brought upon society.

I have no problem believing Bill is a scoundrel, however, much of what you reference here is from an “unsent draft” email most likely just made up by Epstein (without a precedent email). At least I'm not aware of any corroborating evidence.

I enjoy writing code, but even more than that I love having good code. I wouldn't vibe code in the pure sense because the code itself is an artefact I value, not just the resulting behaviour, but I'm perfectly willing to use an LLM as a tool to help me sculpt and garden my codebase.

To not accept the new reality

Thinking this is the new reality is part of the problem.

A more optimistic take would be that most people's skills will change/evolve into managing, directing, dictating, knowing what you want, describing it, focusing on the end product and iterating, instead of wrestling with why the fuck is a string a pointer to a pointer to a character

For tools I want to have I don’t care. For hobby projects I’ll happily code. The want ebbs and flows.

Yeah i feel like most people (especially those who entered the workforce in the 2000s and later) just dont give a shit about their code. One of 30yo guys i work with (a good generalist) was recently complaining how most of these chucklefucks are just churning out darios of vibeslop docs and code (darios being like courics, but for vibeslop instead of turds) that they dont understand.

Apply the same question to music, or drawing, and perhaps the answer to this will be easier to see.

As much as I experience the appreciation of code as art, the vast majority of code is not art -- it is merely functional and entirely ephemeral. Most of code I've ever written in my life is gone and wouldn't be interesting anymore; products of a time that no longer exists.

Just like people still knit sweaters, even knitters still go to the store to buy them. I code for fun and I code for work but character of the code I do for work is changing. If AI can solve a problem better and faster than I can, I no longer have any interest in solving that problem "by hand" for my job. You can call that lack of respect in that I no longer respect good well-written code that an AI can spit out for $30 a month.

Software developers/engineers build software - coding is a mean to an end.

The craft is about creating a tool that others use not some divine code that programmers stare and admire.

You are confused that is why you are surprised.

The lack of respect software developers have for their craft confounds me every day, to the point that I wonder if anyone in software actually writes code because they enjoy it, instead of making money.

I used to enjoy it, and after many years of being asked to do nothing other than boring web applications or my work literally being thrown away (which worked perfectly) because management decided that it had to be implemented in <new language>. I worked hard to write something simple and well documented and worked as well as I could, and it was thrown away. I've had other so-called "lead developers" take credit for my ideas and then implement them so poorly; it was clear they misunderstood it entirely. I've had people straight up lie about what I would be doing in a position. I am currently trapped in a job where I was straight up lied to about what I was doing.

These sorts of experiences have left me completely jaded as a result. I know I am not alone.

I seldom have time to work on my own projects. Software is much more complicated than it used to be, and simply getting things working in a framework or scaffolding a project can take a lot of time. With the AI I can prototype software very quickly, while using my existing skills to stop it from going off the rails.

I half wonder if we wouldn't have this giant compute supply crunch/environmental damage/energy crisis and tech oligopoly situation if someone would've just written better English to Code translation for LLVM instead...

Or a very informative one, depends on your outlook on AI use really.

I don't know if I would call myself a vibe coder, but I definitely feel shame about putting any llm-generated code online unless I've reviewed it to the point of it being what I would've have written on my own anyway.

So lots of personal one-off tools/dashbooards that I never would have made before will probably live forever on my personal git server instead of github or somewhere.

there was a mild stigma around "i met her on facebook". a negative spin would be like: it's like you're stalking random women, and you must not have much luck or courage to approach women. but facebook wasn't exactly a dating app, so.

Implementation became cheaper but it’s still not cheap. I’m working on an implementation for a runtime that’s been going on for 4 months of 24/7 constant Sol and now Astra work. When things go wrong it costs my time, which is my most valuable commodity. A week spent going in the wrong direction is still a week. If I can avoid that by planning better I will.

I would argue that if you belong to group one you have not actually "made" anything.

That's exactly the sentiment I'm referring to.

I'm excited that group one is full of people who couldn't previously "make" anything with code, but now can (in the same way I'm excited that more people can now "make" music, art, stories, movies, etc). And they're definitely making stuff (friends with kids are making games that their friends play, sharing homemade videos with each other, making bedtime stories, making websites and apps that others use, etc).

I'd also argue that theory and architecture have always been closer to "software engineering" than coding ever was, but I also acknowledge I've got a bit of a bias belonging to group 2 (otherwise: been coding for ~25 years).

Sharing anything that has even a whiff of being machine generated opens you up to huge amounts of scorn and derision. It happens in the comment section of nearly every post on this site. If that's not the community here using shame as a mechanism of control, I don't know what is.

I hate reading slop as much as the next person, so I get it, but I don't try to deny it exists.

Well, vibecoding, as the name says, is about the vibes. “Make me a todo app that feels minimalist, with cool animations”. Boom, ship it (and probably forget about it).

Using AI as a tool in a broader, already existing engineering process (here’s a detailed spec of the todo app; reference layouts for the UI are encoded in this folder; the data format requirements are in this file; the test suite must verify properties XXX) doesn’t have a catchy name, because it’s just software engineering, where coding is just but one part of the whole.

in 2 years nobody is going to read their code, much less write it. programming will gradually become a lost skill, like cobol or writing assembly. some people will still do it in specialized environments for a while longer, most wont. first it will feel like skill atrophy to the coder, then it will feel obsolete - programming by hand will become a worse way to program. ill advised, like rolling your own encryption or security today.

as a term, is supposed to denote a human-in-the-loop..... But how much longer will that be true?

Why do you think Claude claims its work on git is co-authored, and now has started putting links to the transcript showing your working. It's about sending a message to the one paying your salary that all your real input in the creation was a few messages and you're replaceable in that equation.

i dont know how this works, but i am super interested that if there's this wall where so much software is ai written, that ai becomes the only thing making its future training data, could the 'engine' 'stall'?

or same thing, if the kids stop making art, will the only art be ai art and will that do the same thing?

again - i dont have any credentials to have a worry about this, i'm pretty much just the dude in front of you at the supermarket line

this feels like it was written by someone who has been out of the dating scene for a while now

dating apps suck, your UI/UX can groundbreaking but that doesn't make them any less awful to use

This "AI is inevitable" mood that people are in always seem to come from people who don't have to use the things AI is supposedly going to replace, and never consider what the actual consequences of that might be

I live in a city and I still feel like my best bet to meet someone is on the apps because they have taken out a lot of the old ways that people used to meet. How do you even approach a potential date? IDK and it sucks.

AI assisted coding all the way.

for someone like me who doesn't like to write tests - I could easily have an agent write a test for me.

I could lay the bricks then also have the agent do ornamental design that I'm not good at.