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Fujitsu launches made-in-Japan next-generation CPU FUJITSU-MONAKA

228 pointsby 1d agoglobal.fujitsu
82 comments
2h agoHN ↗

It's Arm based, although they barely mention that.

2h agoHN ↗

Thanks I was, of course, looking and very curious what their tool chain story will be.

2h agoHN ↗

Yes the lack of transparency on ARM architecture and the obfuscation of the RAM capacity with just the slot information is annoying. Not sure if it is deliberate to sell this at a premium to "mainframe" customers or whether its just their marketing folk not being on the ball. Fascinated by the fact Japan has a 2nm process node but I suspect that too is marketing. Perhaps the 2nm portion of the chip is done at TSMC and the rest of the package done in Japan or something like that. It's not like there's a plethora of 2nm Fabs around the planet to choose from.

1h agoHN ↗

It looks to me like it is an AI optimized HPC CPU and while HPC CPUs are actually quite fast, they are not particularly well suited for transformer based neural networks.

It's weird that they don't give out any of the interesting numbers like number of memory channels, how much SRAM they have (CPUs tend to have more of it) or what their expected performance is going to be.

23m agoHN ↗

Reading of JASM (TSMC/Sony subsidiary) it seems they're planning on producing at least 3nm chips there in their expansion plans.

1h agoHN ↗

If they didn't mention SVE2, I wouldn't have known either... that would make it arm9 at the earliest...

40m agoHN ↗

That was regarding the HPC Fugaku , this is next generation

1h agoHN ↗

They actually do not in that article. I had to look elsewhere to find that out. Weird, one would expect that a big announcement like this would probably need to be vetted against licensing agreements with Arm that would probably want that fact to be prominently highlighted in press releases.

42m agoHN ↗

It is in the article - they cite "SVE2" support

22m agoHN ↗

Yeah, searched the page for common architectures (x86,arm and Sparc since it was Fujitsu) since it'd seem silly to use a totally novel architecture but didn't find anything until noticing SVE2.

1h agoHN ↗

Interesting to note that Fujitsu did this when the SPARC architecture was popular: they enhanced/developed a CPU for the same ABI.

Seems they have decided they don’t want to create their own architecture, but take the popular architecture and build on it.

1h agoHN ↗

Thanks kinda how Japan works. Inventing something new is hard, but taking something that's a cool idea and making it actually usable is well within their wheelhouse.

See: - Blue LEDs - Quartz Watches - Lithium-ion Batteries - Bidets

8m agoHN ↗

I'm sure there's plenty of other stuff invented in Japan, but that's really beside the point.

The industry is now mature enough that nobody really wants the headache of a new architecture at this point in time, Risc-V got a pass for being a grassroots movement growing out off FPGA's since the IP situation was more or less clear or even predatory with all existing architectures, Power, Sparc,SuperH,68k,etc are buried for good reasons.

17m agoHN ↗

Sun invented SPARC, Fujitsu just happened to be the last producer since they built mainframes on it. Reading it seems like they plan to stop producing Sparc processors and machines in a near timeframe so that makes this announcement less surprising.

1h agoHN ↗

Not mentioning the architecture is rather strange. Being Fujitsu I'd expect SPARC, but apparently not. Maybe we're reaching a point where some circles either don't care or just defaults to ARM?

Obviously they can just ignore the license in the future and continue development out of a local branch, but it's also a bit disingenuous to speak of "sovereign infrastructure" and then use licensed processor design.

40m agoHN ↗

Fujitsu dropped SPARC for HPC ~seven years ago with their A64fx. That's where ARM SVE comes from in the first place.

32m agoHN ↗

Yes but it's their own design, not licensing Arm cores.

31m agoHN ↗

Thanks. Looked for that in the article and couldn't find it.

What are the GPU capabilities?

17m agoHN ↗

Fujitsu has a long history of designing their own micro but using a standard ISA for HPC. Used to be SPARC, now it is ARM. IIRC Fujitsu were the main architects behind the SVE ARM extension.

6m agoHN ↗

But Arm is owned by SoftBank, a Japanese conglomerate.

(I think Japanese sovereignty is the main point of the article.)

2h agoHN ↗

Iam very curious as to how well it'll perform outside of Asia.

2h agoHN ↗

And if they'll sell it, seeing as they market it as 'sovereign AI'.

1h agoHN ↗

Performance would probably be the same regardless of where you run the CPU.

2h agoHN ↗

Fun fact, Fujitsu used to run their own fabs in Japan until they were sold to UMC and now they're another UMC fab although they are stuck at like the 20nm node. So this is likely made at JASM.

2h agoHN ↗

I think they'd say if the CPU was fabbed in Japan, instead there's some very "careful" wording:

next-generation CPU, FUJITSU-MONAKA [1], designed and developed in Japan

Fujitsu MONAKA Server, powered by the FUJITSU-MONAKA CPU, enhances sovereign capabilities through domestic manufacturing,

1h agoHN ↗

FUJITSU-MONAKA utilizes a 3D-stacked architecture with a state-of-the-art 2nm process for the core and a 5nm process for the cache and I/O sections.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Advanced_Semiconductor_M...

The Phase 2 factory was under construction as of January 2025, next to the Phase 1 facility, and is expected to be completed by 2027.[3] Initially planned for manufacturing semiconductors using a 6 nm process, 3 nm was incorporated into production plans for 2028 in 2026

11m agoHN ↗

Right below the headline it says:

Achieving world-class AI inference performance through Japan-developed 2nm 3D-stacked CPU and server integrated, developed, and manufactured in Japan

Sounds pretty clear to me

8m agoHN ↗

So, server manufactured/integrated in Japan; actual chip manufactured elsewhere (but "developed" in Japan, whatever that means)?

4m agoHN ↗

depends on whether you read it as

((2nm 3d stacked CPU) and server) (integrated, developed, and manufactured in Japan)

or

(2nm 3d stacked CPU) and (server integrated, developed, and manufactured in Japan)

4m agoHN ↗

Indeed, it is extremely clear: by not saying "manufactured in Japan", the words "developed in Japan" tell you that they drew up the designs for the CPU in Japan, and then sent those designs off to a fab outside Japan for actual manufacturing. Then they bring those CPUs back to Japan, so that the server can be manufactured in Japan even if the server components are not.

That manufacturing step may change in the future, but right now that CPU is not "Made in Japan", it's only "Designed in Japan".

1h agoHN ↗

It's 2nm, so it has to be manufactured by TSMC.

2h agoHN ↗

Where are the CPUs fabbed? They make a big deal about "sovereign" but is the CPU actually made in Japan, or do they rely on TSMC?

Also odd how big an emphasis they put on AI inference when they don't build the GPU?

2h agoHN ↗

The article says that it’s manufactured in Japan.

2h agoHN ↗

where exactly does it say that? I don't consider "designed and developed in Japan" to be the same as manufactured there

2h agoHN ↗

At the very top of the article: "Achieving world-class AI inference performance through Japan-developed 2nm 3D-stacked CPU and server integrated, developed, and manufactured in Japan"

1h agoHN ↗

"Japan-developed CPU..." plus the server itself (parts, power supplies, case, etc.) integrated, developed and manufactured in Japan. It sounds like they're weasel-wording it a bit, but I don't think the CPU itself is manufactured in Japan, only "developed."

1h agoHN ↗

Yep. I'd say the CPU is manufactured outside, and the rest of the server in Japan.

1h agoHN ↗

Pretty sure it's worded in a way that it applies only to the server, so it should be read as two distinct things:

- Japan-developed 2nm 3D-stacked CPU

- server integrated, developed, and manufactured in Japan

1h agoHN ↗

Ever seen the phrase "diffused in Taiwan, assembled in Malaysia"?

2h agoHN ↗

put on AI inference when they don't build the GPU?

GPU in AI world is essentially a set of specific matrix calculations that this CPU supports on hardware-level. Thought memory speed seems low.

2h agoHN ↗

Would be cool to get ahold of one of these in the US.

I do find it odd that the 2U model has less storage capacity than the 1U on their chart. That doesn't make much sense to me.

1h agoHN ↗

The two made-in-Japan, premium grade, Fujitsu laptops I had to work with were by far the worse pieces of electronic I have ever used. Both exhibited identical defects: fans running continuously at maximum speed, and the batteries would completely die within hours of the devices being powered off. Windows or Linux. And don't talk about that tiny unresponsive trackpad to me. Never again.

1h agoHN ↗

The Fujitsu Lifebooks were legendary for their robustness back in the day, I'm genuinely sad you had that experience.

The only fujitsu laptops I used was back in 2011- it was a budget version for on-call and it was fine..

Sounds like the fans running 100% probably contributed significantly to the issue here. If I had to guess it was likely that the C-States were disabled in BIOS somehow so the CPU clock was running at full tilt the whole time, maybe combined with a bad thermal paste job.

I'm not here to defend Fujitsu but I've had really bad experiences with basically every major laptop brand (Dell: majorly bad coil whine and especially faulty soldered RAM, HP: keys vanishing from the keyboard and very weak hinges that break all the time, Apple: The GPU unsoldering itself and the butterfly keyboard shenanigans).

I don't really know any brand with a flawless track record sadly.

Before anyone brings up Thinkpads, they're trading on a reputation that hasn't been true for over a decade. If you have fond memories of a thinkpad it's most likely that you had it from before 2016, or it's "fine", but certainly not great.

1h agoHN ↗

I do recall that Fujitsu had a very... unique approach to exposing the Setup option in their firmware. It was just a UEFI boot entry. If that entry was removed, you couldn't get back into the firmware setup; you had to find the name of the setup EFI file and then run that from the EFI console.

1h agoHN ↗

Their consumer electronics arm is completely unrelated and also majority owned by Lenovo

1h agoHN ↗

I was about to say if they hadn't said it was a Fujitsu laptop I would have guessed it was a ThinkPad. Describes my experience with a P1 exactly.

1h agoHN ↗

Reaching further back, the Sylistic line was mostly quite good/durable, and I still use my Stylstic ST-4110 when I need to use an old scanner or control a CNC machine on my back deck when cutting tropical hardwoods.

Really miss the transflective display and wish that there were newer devices with such technology

27m agoHN ↗

What year? The ones I had were the best. Very expensive, but service at the office & at home, very sturdy, very long battery life. That was somewhere early 2000s.

13m agoHN ↗

I just have Fujitsu Lifebooks at Home since 2007. I think they are good, came with a bloat free Windows. I bought even one for my Mom over 10 years ago. I just changed once the HDD with a SSD. Now all my Lifebook run with Linux just flawless.

1h agoHN ↗

I wouldn't trust that this CPU can do maths properly.

1h agoHN ↗

You're right, but the scandal is so upsetting that I personally cannot ever look at Fujitsu the same way even. Also, I think you're neglecting that a large part of why it became so bad was that Fujitsu claimed there was no issue with their software. Even if it were built by a company they acquired, the response to the developing situation was something that the parent company should have stepped in to oversee.

1h agoHN ↗

I think what's most notable about this for me is the reduced environmental impact. The specifications list liquid-cooling as optional and it highlights the CPU as the main processor instead of a power hungry GPU. My takeaway is that the next generation of AI HPC's will focus more heavily on sustainable operations.

1h agoHN ↗

One problem we’re going to have with AI hardware is coming up with a standard set of specifications that are comparable. I don’t really care about the CPU GHz and the memory bandwidth, at least not directly. What I really want to know is how many tokens per second this will deliver, but that also depends on the model. We need a standard metric for that. Perhaps we agree on a specific open weight model (e.g. GLM 5.3 Flash or Qwen vWhatever) and then measure TPS on the hardware of interest.

1h agoHN ↗

I don’t really care about the CPU GHz and the memory bandwidth ... What I really want to know is how many tokens per second this will deliver

There is a fairly direct link between the two numbers. You can predict the latter from former reasonably well

1h agoHN ↗

I feel like even TPS is becoming less of a good metric as we're seeing certain models handle similar problems while burning far fewer tokens.

1h agoHN ↗

I always heard of GB/s as most important number ... AI told me their 8800 MT/s on 8 Byte, 12 DDR5-Channels means 845 GB/s. A Nvidia RTX 4090 has 1008 GB/s. Nvidia B200 has 8000 GB/s. Is this the right way of looking at it?

1h agoHN ↗

You have to load the model weights into VRAM over PCI-E (from RAM). So the (PCI-E) bandwidth strongly affects time to first token.

You have to run inference on the GPU by reading and writing to VRAM. So TFLOPS of the compute matters, and bandwidth to the VRAM (Always integrated with the GPU, rarely a bottleneck), and this strongly affects tokens/s

If you're doing training workloads or offloading to system RAM, it gets more complicated. (And mostly bound up trying to feed compute on time)

(Edits for clarity.)

25m agoHN ↗

So the (PCI-E) bandwidth strongly affects time to first token

On dedicated inference hardware I'd expect model weights to never leave the RAM, and you'd probably load them on startup before even starting to serve requests

1h agoHN ↗

Wow a corporate TLD in a wild, never seen this outside of the erstwhile domains.google

47m agoHN ↗

there's quite a few

like:

- home.kpmg - global.honda

and probably more I forgot about

but as you can see, they're pretty terrible for replacing .com domains

1h agoHN ↗

I fail to see how they will take a significant market share or even break even on this venture.

It's an overcrowded market. Far better would be to focus on semiconductor supply chain, which Japan already supplies some elements, to sell to fabs.

Because the bottleneck is the fabs. If a new 2 nm fab came online today, it would immediately sell all its capacity to 2030 no problem, without Fujitsu trying this gambit.

It's not 'sovereign', the architecture is not designed in Japan, the silicon is not fabbed in Japan. This whole thing is sideways.

46m agoHN ↗

I fail to see how they will take a significant market share or even break even on this venture.

Doesn't matter. You have to start somewhere and this is a good start.

37m agoHN ↗

Japan historically behaves as if they have nukes and need a totally sovereign HPC capability to support their stockpile.

33m agoHN ↗

It's a custom Fujitsu micro-architecture.

30m agoHN ↗

the architecture is not designed in Japan

The text says "next-generation CPU, FUJITSU-MONAKA, designed and developed in Japan".

57m agoHN ↗

Every developed country is going to push for their own homemade chips. Japan used to make Sparc CPU's back in the day. Probably many others I'm not aware of.

56m agoHN ↗

I've been calling for high-multicore CPUs (at least 100 cores) with local memories for a quarter century now. No winners so far.

A Pentium 4 hit 3.8 GHz longer than that ago in 2004, so that's not special. And the estimated price will be $7,000-10,000, which isn't special either since that's about 10x more than it should be.

Hot take: GPUs disrupted the CPU industry to such a degree that CPUs never recovered, and like the k-shaped economy, the current status quo only serves a small fraction of customers. We can and should do better, but sadly we won't. Still, it's good that Fujitsu did this, for the competition if nothing else.

48m agoHN ↗

Unless they are used for multi-processing in classical UNIX fashion, or proper microkernels, most applications will hardly take advantage of them.

Managed languages runtimes are probably the ones that would be better equipped to take advantage of them, for distributed JIT, GC and asynchronous code.

The Connection Machine style with StarLisp.

Very few devs can write optimal multi-threaded code that explores the single digit count of cores on their laptops or phones already.

23m agoHN ↗

Back in 2008 Fujitsu has one of the best performing 10Gbps Switches. We were building 40 Gbps packet sniffers at Google (4x 10 Gbps NICs) and needed switches that could do things like mirror traffic across ports at line rate. Fujitsu was way ahead of the pack. I always wondered what held them back from building a meaningful networking business in the US.

19m agoHN ↗

Probably not, Japanese firms excel at hardware and generally build extremely poor software. This a hardware product, so consequently it is probably fairly good.

11m agoHN ↗

Honestly, no idea. In my career I have worked with a lot of Japanese firms and have always found their engineers to be excellent. I used to think it was a lack of consideration for UX, but that obviously can't be true when you see excellent examples of UX in hardware (e.g. Switch controls), even though its exceedingly rare on the software side.

If anyone on HN knows (there are several other commenters more deeply steeped in Japanese engineering culture), I would love to know why as well.

10m agoHN ↗

Conglomerates in general, and especially Japanese ones, are heterogeneous enough that those are basically two different companies. The British "Fujitsu" was an acquisition that I'm certain they now deeply, deeply regret.

(Which in no way excuses their utter evil.)

14m agoHN ↗

I'm kind of a Fujitsu fanboy. Since i came across the fact that a pretty modern xeon ecc ram nvme Workstation boards can be optimized to only draw ~10 Watt idle is just impressive, that is less than a gaming router. Even older ones like D3417-B12 were crazy effizient.

I also liked their Primergy Servers, but never got one for a reasonable price to test it out.

Another thing was the Futro series (e.g. S930) that could be used as opnsense firewall or low budget proxmox host.

Unfortunately it was always hard to obtain the high quality stuff as a consumer and years ago they sold their mainboard section to kontron. So no new Fujitsu Mainboards for now... What a pity.