A read this advice a while ago, and now it hurts me every time someone goes "Hi (name)" and then you just sit there looking at the 3 dots indicating they're writing something.
Or worse,
"Hi (name)"
"How are you, all good?"
"A question"
"Do you know anything about (system)?"
"I have this problem..."
Just have a bitnof respect for my time and attention and write your damn message already.
That's not really the same thing though. They do have a bit of respect for your time and attention, they are writing your damn message already, and you know that because of the dots. The people who prompted this website are leaving the conversation trapped in purgatory until you respond.
If the other party is away, and you leave before they come back, they can still answer your question, instead of just staring at a "Hello" and wondering what they missed.
Well, you can also just send a second message if your first one doesn't get a quick response:
Hey quick question
Just wondering when project X is due
Would this be slightly better as one message? Maybe in some situations. But some people would find it to be self-centered to jump right into "what can you do for me?".
Appreciate the point about multiple notifications. I fine-tune mine so that when I'm away I don't get notifications by default. Regarding self-centeredness, reasonable minds can differ on this. Some people prefer a bit of chit-chat before getting down to brass tacks. Others want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. My point was that this is not one-size-fits-all advice.
this used to bug me a lot more than it does now, perhaps because it doesn't really happen to me very often anymore. when it does, i just type "hi" back and then move on with my day.
Funny! Not sure if it's a cultural thing, but I experienced this phenomenon with Indian and Portuguese guys, and while I'm sure they're just trying to be polite, it's annoying as hell. Just ask the damn question!
I would consider the approach in this posting to be rude. I feel like they are shoving a bunch of information at me without context. Part of the purpose of the salutation is to allow the call receiver to orient themselves. “Who is calling?” “How urgent is this?” “Do I have time to talk now?”
The thing with a messaging "hello" is it doesn't provide much of that information. You're only able to evaluate the time commitment and urgency by having the content of the request - a "Hello" ping on instant messenger is an attention stealer but it prevents the reader from being able to triage. It commits them to paying attention and waiting for at least part of a conversation that they may or may not have time for.
With async communication, the expectation is that they can generally take as long as they need. You put your message and maybe they'll get back to you then or in 5 minutes or in an hour, etc, but they have all the information to orient themselves on their own time.
If you just go "hello" and have this synchronous chat, then there isn't time to orient yourself, because the expectation is to respond as if you're in a face-to-face convo.
If it's a voice call, yes. But for text, folks can put the entire thing into a single message. Now you have all that data you need in one go, and you can decide if and when to answer in your own time.
Hello's an established communication protocol that allows the speaker to verify the target is available, listening and ready to initiate a conversation. I've only ever seen this site quoted to defend people's brutish behaviour. If we're going to discard centuries of consensus, I say why stop there.
If you gotta call someone for support, do you say hello and wait for them to say hello back or do you just unload your question?
Hmm, Except most chat applications have an indicator that already answers all those questions in the basic sense. When I set myself as "in a meeting" or "busy", it means... just that. "hey I see you are busy, are you available?" doesn't make a lot of sense.
Furthermore, I can't actually answer in the shorthand, because I don't know anything about it. "can you talk?" - for how long? about what? with who? I have no idea how to respond to you.
Please, just tell me what you want - "Hi, wondering if you have 5 minutes to chat about <topic>?".
I often think people are wanting to know if you're there or busy and are gauging your response time for an answer. According, if I'm busy I ignore hellos 100%, but if I'm not, it type "hi" and immediately close the tab/window and spend zero effort thinking about who they are or what they might want. Their question normally follows. If the pleasantries persist, I repeat this algorithm, but replace with "never better!" (insta-close! And continue previous train of thought)
I used to live South of the Mason/Dixon line (MD, so just barely South), and have many friends, from even farther South.
I live in New York.
These cultures have radically different approaches to communication.
New Yorkers want you to get right to the point. No dilly-dallying. I think that most of the SV Californians I've dealt with, have been similar.
They be like:
Hey Chris,
Do you have a published API for the Widget library that was recommended?
Southerners, on the other hand, like to "break the ice," with some small personal talk, like:
Hey Chris,
I hope this finds you in good spirits, and good health. Down here, we're experiencing a bit of a heat wave, so our air conditioners are running all day.
I was writing to ask you if you have an API spec. for that library that was recommended to me...
On IRC back in the day this was "Just Ask".
"Just Jeeves".
Yeah but you really could just guess and be right most of the time, since the question was likely "A/S/L?" ;)
"Don't ask to ask, just ask"
IM?
Good advice. Anyway, hello everyone.
EHLO is a better hello.
A read this advice a while ago, and now it hurts me every time someone goes "Hi (name)" and then you just sit there looking at the 3 dots indicating they're writing something.
Or worse,
"Hi (name)"
"How are you, all good?"
"A question"
"Do you know anything about (system)?"
"I have this problem..."
Just have a bitnof respect for my time and attention and write your damn message already.
That's not really the same thing though. They do have a bit of respect for your time and attention, they are writing your damn message already, and you know that because of the dots. The people who prompted this website are leaving the conversation trapped in purgatory until you respond.
Yeah, I mean that happens as well. Also really long ... that ends up being just a short question.
Well, you can also just send a second message if your first one doesn't get a quick response:
Hey quick question
Just wondering when project X is due
Would this be slightly better as one message? Maybe in some situations. But some people would find it to be self-centered to jump right into "what can you do for me?".
About multiple messages: this can cause multiple notifications, which can be annoying or cause a sense of urgency.
About self centered: would you find it self-centered, or would you instead appreciate seeing the complete message?
Appreciate the point about multiple notifications. I fine-tune mine so that when I'm away I don't get notifications by default. Regarding self-centeredness, reasonable minds can differ on this. Some people prefer a bit of chit-chat before getting down to brass tacks. Others want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. My point was that this is not one-size-fits-all advice.
Past submissions with hundred of comments in total for you all to enjoy: https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=nohello.net
this used to bug me a lot more than it does now, perhaps because it doesn't really happen to me very often anymore. when it does, i just type "hi" back and then move on with my day.
Funny! Not sure if it's a cultural thing, but I experienced this phenomenon with Indian and Portuguese guys, and while I'm sure they're just trying to be polite, it's annoying as hell. Just ask the damn question!
I've gotten "Hi" with zero other context from people of all backgrounds.
I just assume they are pig-butcherers, and never respond.
might wanna make that year reference in the text dynamic
‘sup y’all?
I would consider the approach in this posting to be rude. I feel like they are shoving a bunch of information at me without context. Part of the purpose of the salutation is to allow the call receiver to orient themselves. “Who is calling?” “How urgent is this?” “Do I have time to talk now?”
This is about chats, not calls though - you can look at the context and make the same determination.
Even for calls, "hey, do you have a sec to help me troubleshoot the CDN setup?" is way better than "hello," followed by a call if you respond.
The thing with a messaging "hello" is it doesn't provide much of that information. You're only able to evaluate the time commitment and urgency by having the content of the request - a "Hello" ping on instant messenger is an attention stealer but it prevents the reader from being able to triage. It commits them to paying attention and waiting for at least part of a conversation that they may or may not have time for.
With async communication, the expectation is that they can generally take as long as they need. You put your message and maybe they'll get back to you then or in 5 minutes or in an hour, etc, but they have all the information to orient themselves on their own time.
If you just go "hello" and have this synchronous chat, then there isn't time to orient yourself, because the expectation is to respond as if you're in a face-to-face convo.
If it's a voice call, yes. But for text, folks can put the entire thing into a single message. Now you have all that data you need in one go, and you can decide if and when to answer in your own time.
Why stop there, you don't need all words
smart guy, ahead of time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_K-L9uhsBLM
let's do letters next? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Minnow_Pea)
What? No one says you can't say hello. It just shouldn't be the only thing you say
Hello's an established communication protocol that allows the speaker to verify the target is available, listening and ready to initiate a conversation. I've only ever seen this site quoted to defend people's brutish behaviour. If we're going to discard centuries of consensus, I say why stop there.
If you gotta call someone for support, do you say hello and wait for them to say hello back or do you just unload your question?
Content origins somewhere as far back as 2007. Various site(s) maybe 2013.
The easiest solution is to simply not respond to "hello"s. If they have a question, they'll ask.
Hi is a shorthand for "can you talk" or "are you on screensharing" or "is there anyone looking over your shoulder" or such things
It's not definitely a sign that I'm actually interested in greeting you, or asking about your migraine.
Just something like "how do you do" which is a total nonsense either, so this discussion is moot.
Hmm, Except most chat applications have an indicator that already answers all those questions in the basic sense. When I set myself as "in a meeting" or "busy", it means... just that. "hey I see you are busy, are you available?" doesn't make a lot of sense.
Furthermore, I can't actually answer in the shorthand, because I don't know anything about it. "can you talk?" - for how long? about what? with who? I have no idea how to respond to you.
Please, just tell me what you want - "Hi, wondering if you have 5 minutes to chat about <topic>?".
I often think people are wanting to know if you're there or busy and are gauging your response time for an answer. According, if I'm busy I ignore hellos 100%, but if I'm not, it type "hi" and immediately close the tab/window and spend zero effort thinking about who they are or what they might want. Their question normally follows. If the pleasantries persist, I repeat this algorithm, but replace with "never better!" (insta-close! And continue previous train of thought)
please dont send this to anyone unless you want your whole office to think youre a dickhead lol
Absolutely true.
I used to think I was socially awkward... but man, even at my worst I would have known better than to send this link as a response to anybody.
I used to live South of the Mason/Dixon line (MD, so just barely South), and have many friends, from even farther South.
I live in New York.
These cultures have radically different approaches to communication.
New Yorkers want you to get right to the point. No dilly-dallying. I think that most of the SV Californians I've dealt with, have been similar.
They be like:
Southerners, on the other hand, like to "break the ice," with some small personal talk, like: