The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?
In 2006 shortly after I bought my (first and still only) home, I bought the cheapest Kenmore fridge from Sears (~$600 at the time) as the one that came with the house failed soon after moving in - it was probably 26 years old with metal grill shelves. I was stretched for money for a bit due to dealing with closing costs, etc. I figured it'd last 5-10 years and I'd just get a new, "better" one when my cashflow wasn't acutely tight.
Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.
Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.
The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.
Because the temperature is adjusted and they want to be able to display the current temperature as well as the target on said display? And once you’ve done that, your bean counters will pressure you to shave the BOM.
Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision
they want to be able to display the current temperature
Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.
It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.
Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.
It probably has more to do with consumer fridges being a bang-bang controller situation where temperature will always fluctuate several degrees either side of the desired number.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone. That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I can't tell if you're serious or sarcastic, so I'll bite: why on Earth would you ever want to change the temperature settings of your fridge?
Does a relay with a thermocouple get you the cycles required for no-frost features? I agree that there should be adequate safeguards at every turn but its not like computerized control of fridge temperature doesn't make sense.
Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.
Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?
I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
A device like a printer can work without certain inks without damage, but at the cost of quality.
Humans have historically been able to decide when quality is low enough that replacement/repair is necessary in these situations. This goes for almost anything: appliances, farming equipment, clothing, etc.
Having a device/appliance/tool that decides for you that “it’s time”, especially when the manufacturer has a vested interest in coercing you into a buying a replacement right away, takes away that owner agency.
I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.
Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example
You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.
As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense. Similarly, when I'm at the store I don't always know if I still have enough of $perishable or if I should get more.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...
We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.
I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.
Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".
damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess
Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers
Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life.
When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.
Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
I wonder if it's a regional difference. Here in the UK I have their fridge and dryer - both came with 5 year warranty. My inlaws have their fridge in Poland, that came with a 10 year warranty on the compressor. They've had it now for 8 years and it's been working fine. Obviously it's anecdotes, but if a company offers 10 years warranty for something I tend to see that as a strong signal it's going to be at least somewhat reliable.
What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)
Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).
There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
Aside: I heard that "eco mode" is typically not actually the most energy efficient mode on most washing machines. Apparently it's a standard mode they have to add so that energy efficiency can be measured across machines, but that means it can't be optimised.
You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.
That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.
While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.
The R in IoT stands for reliability.
And the S stands for security.
We have RIoTS already... two more letters and we get a Scrabble.
If we'd had RIoTS this stuff might've already been fixed.
The Q in Samsung stands for software quality.
Every single time I see Tizen, I get reminded of this,
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-ri...
https://pvs-studio.com/en/blog/posts/cpp/0519/
The E in MBA stands for experience.
Certainly not in their QLED technology..
The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?
Fridge sellers dont want their product to be seen as commodities, because they can't charge a high margin on those type of products.
In 2006 shortly after I bought my (first and still only) home, I bought the cheapest Kenmore fridge from Sears (~$600 at the time) as the one that came with the house failed soon after moving in - it was probably 26 years old with metal grill shelves. I was stretched for money for a bit due to dealing with closing costs, etc. I figured it'd last 5-10 years and I'd just get a new, "better" one when my cashflow wasn't acutely tight.
Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.
Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.
The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.
Old fridges last over two decades. I don't think that Samsung and others want these to last as long.
I guess the sellers and industries should have thought of this when they offloaded manufacturing to cheap countries that can and will undercut them.
Because the temperature is adjusted and they want to be able to display the current temperature as well as the target on said display? And once you’ve done that, your bean counters will pressure you to shave the BOM.
Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision
Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.
It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.
Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.
Everything is getting dumber.
It probably has more to do with consumer fridges being a bang-bang controller situation where temperature will always fluctuate several degrees either side of the desired number.
A thermocouple won't drive a relay.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
...why do you need to change the fridge temperature remotely?
I paid $11,000 for my luxury built-in refrigerator, I expect that functionality to exist since it’s trivial to implement.
I could implement that in a weekend on an ESP board.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone. That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I can't tell if you're serious or sarcastic, so I'll bite: why on Earth would you ever want to change the temperature settings of your fridge?
Does a relay with a thermocouple get you the cycles required for no-frost features? I agree that there should be adequate safeguards at every turn but its not like computerized control of fridge temperature doesn't make sense.
Better to freeze a fridge than to cook it
This holds for most things, actually.
Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.
Not as bad a putting a mime in the fridge screen, I suppose...
Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?
IoT is not for me.
ioT is nice but only for people who know how to make softwares.
The problem here is there is almost always incentive to make that software shit.
I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
Similar to when printer stops printing black when color is gone.
That probably means you've been wasting toner on "enhanced darkness" (check if it's turned on/off).
Color inkjets demand color ink for tracking dots even if it isn't used for anything else.
No, it’s because it can’t print the yellow dots watermark for tracking.
That "feature" and incompetence at The Intercept leaked the identity of Reality Winner.
I have never understood the negative controversy around this.
I expect the printer to use whatever inks it has on hand to print in the best quality it can.
The use of ink is an inevitability.
It always struck me as one of those things analogous to “I don’t understand why my car needs oil when I already put gas in it.”
Just give the machine the stuff it requires to operate.
This is disingenuous; a car needs both gas and oil to run. A printer should only need black ink to print black and white documents.
Your engine explodes when it doesnt have oil.
A printer can still print black when color ink is gone
A device like a printer can work without certain inks without damage, but at the cost of quality.
Humans have historically been able to decide when quality is low enough that replacement/repair is necessary in these situations. This goes for almost anything: appliances, farming equipment, clothing, etc.
Having a device/appliance/tool that decides for you that “it’s time”, especially when the manufacturer has a vested interest in coercing you into a buying a replacement right away, takes away that owner agency.
There was a brief period before IoT turned to IoS, when the first manufacturers seemed to make an effort in implementation.
Likely not just rotten food but also spoilt medicine. Content of my fridge is a lot more expensive than the fridge.
Imagine a lot of insulin gone to waste.
Yes, freezing insulin destroys it, which is a problem for me when I’m outdoors in the winter.
I have yet to understand what the value proposition of an internet-connected refrigerator is.
I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.
You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.
You jest but having elderly parents tens of miles outside of town it's a timesaver, luckily I can still request photos of things.
Here's a crazy thought, you could just talk to your elderly family members.
Marketing demands products that sound awesomely cool and new and shiny and feature-laden.
Why should anyone care about stuff that happens after Sales has gotten the customer's money?
As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense. Similarly, when I'm at the store I don't always know if I still have enough of $perishable or if I should get more.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...
Did Gilfoyle hack Jian Yang's smart fridge again?
freeze-in-hell.bat man!
https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0def6aed-0b5b-4856-874a-d97...
Suck it JinYang.
I hate news websites so much. Everything has to be a fucking joke.
We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.
I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.
Yeah, my hot water heater has an app. I'm not happy about this.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.
I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.
Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".
damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess
Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers
There was a US lawsuit against them for their linear compressors: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/consumer/fridge-failures-...
Must be a different branch than the TV's, which spy on what you're talking about
There's other reasons to avoid LG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME
Is this lack of quality a US thing?
Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.
I never heard anybody complaining about Samsung.
When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.
Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
I wonder if it's a regional difference. Here in the UK I have their fridge and dryer - both came with 5 year warranty. My inlaws have their fridge in Poland, that came with a 10 year warranty on the compressor. They've had it now for 8 years and it's been working fine. Obviously it's anecdotes, but if a company offers 10 years warranty for something I tend to see that as a strong signal it's going to be at least somewhat reliable.
What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)
Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).
A lot of devices have optional "smart" functionality. I don't think that's nearly as bad as devices actively connected to the internet.
There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
if it makes an unexpected noise, to be precise
I'd go with an ancient boat anchor LaserJet but, otherwise, yep.
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_hmwBBPnc
Aside: I heard that "eco mode" is typically not actually the most energy efficient mode on most washing machines. Apparently it's a standard mode they have to add so that energy efficiency can be measured across machines, but that means it can't be optimised.
You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.
(YMMV, look things up for your specific model)
I'm starting to hate all smart devices. I love my dumb devices that need no updates, internet or subscription. They just work.
That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
Or comply with idiotic energy conservation laws in places like Europe.
How to turn a refrigerator into a brick.
I chuckled at the title.
An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.
While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.
Don't buy Samsung consumer devices.