The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?
In 2006 shortly after I bought my (first and still only) home, I bought the cheapest Kenmore fridge from Sears (~$600 at the time) as the one that came with the house failed soon after moving in - it was probably 26 years old with metal grill shelves. I was stretched for money for a bit due to dealing with closing costs, etc. I figured it'd last 5-10 years and I'd just get a new, "better" one when my cashflow wasn't acutely tight.
Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.
Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.
The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.
Most non high-end samsung fridges aren't built in Korea, lower-end fridges are made in Vietnam and midrange fridges are made in China or Thailand. Regardless of Samsung outsourcing they still have to compete with outsourcing firms. There's only so much demand for fridges, 100-200 million fridges a year worldwide, and most of the consumer fridges end up primarily competing on price.
Because the temperature is adjusted and they want to be able to display the current temperature as well as the target on said display? And once you’ve done that, your bean counters will pressure you to shave the BOM.
Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision
they want to be able to display the current temperature
Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.
It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.
Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.
It probably has more to do with consumer fridges being a bang-bang controller situation where temperature will always fluctuate several degrees either side of the desired number.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone. That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I can't tell if you're serious or sarcastic, so I'll bite: why on Earth would you ever want to change the temperature settings of your fridge?
Does a relay with a thermocouple get you the cycles required for no-frost features? I agree that there should be adequate safeguards at every turn but its not like computerized control of fridge temperature doesn't make sense.
Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.
Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?
I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
That’s what you think, though, you didn’t design the printer. I assume you don’t have a background in color theory or chemistry or whatever else you need to produce ink.
For all you know, the black ink isn’t really a perfect black and the color inks are used in conjunction with the black ink.
I also think a lot of people are just being cheap about it. It’s just not a big deal.
In my experience a color inkjet printer makes a much better print than a black and white laser printer. If you are willing to sacrifice print quality then buy a black and white laser printer.
A device like a printer can work without certain inks without damage, but at the cost of quality.
Humans have historically been able to decide when quality is low enough that replacement/repair is necessary in these situations. This goes for almost anything: appliances, farming equipment, clothing, etc.
Having a device/appliance/tool that decides for you that “it’s time”, especially when the manufacturer has a vested interest in coercing you into a buying a replacement right away, takes away that owner agency.
My printer could theoretically print a black and white page in magneta when my black ink runs out, too. But logically, it doesn’t want to do that.
I just don’t think it’s a big deal to consider the printer a device that requires all inks to be present to function properly. If the printer is consuming some color inks in order to print black colors better the implication is that less black ink is being consumed. Either way you’re buying ink.
It’s not cheapness. My kid couldn’t print her homework because I was low on cyan. It’s not that I don’t want to buy more ink, but that the thing I was printing only needed black. If it weren’t a color printer, the output would’ve been identical and it wouldn’t have needed cyan.
No, its tracking dots if you send a criminal printed letter for ransom, they will track you down very quickly. Some people don't like being tracked continuously.
There are 0 other reasons, you being ignorant of basic facts and repeating your weird mantra doesn't change that.
IoT need standardized inter-connection APIs enforced on every participent. If you can defect to another supplier- and ecosystem and he can revive your device after a e.g. a "downdate"- the lock in effect disappears and the competition reappars.
A bimetallic strip thermostat with a ‘cool/off/heat’ mode switch and ‘on/off/auto’ for fan control is all anyone actually needs with a fixed speed compressor and generic furnace with a fixed speed fan.
If you have a fancy modulating furnace and variable speed compressor or a variable speed heat pump, a thermostat that uses a PID would work better.
Fixed speed compressors are okay for AC condensers but for tighter applications like heat pumps a variable speed drive offers a good efficiency gain, the problem is there is no standardization established for the driving of say a variable motor since they are all redesigned and unique so when the controller goes kaputz you are out 3-4000 dollars for something that costs 30 dollars to manufacture
I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.
Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example
You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.
I live with an elderly person (as a caretaker) and find that elderly persons are not always good sources of information about needs. It could be that I am completely wrong about the usefulness of a connected refrigerator (I just look in out 1980's era fridge).
As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense. Similarly, when I'm at the store I don't always know if I still have enough of $perishable or if I should get more.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
Your fridge must be a complex place to navigate. We have 70cm wide tall Siemens one and what we have vs what is missing is a question of maybe 10-15s check. This covers 4 people.
Chest freezers would be more tricky if full and could take maybe up to a minute but we don't have those. If you are bad at tracking, make a list.
No, we really don't need 'smart' fridges and people should vote with their wallets.
I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...
I’d just throw an analog min/max thermometer in there and investigate if the max temp goes above 40F, sounds a lot easier than adding a temp probe and door switch to a residential refrigerator.
- it notifies if your kids (or spouse) have left the door open.
- you can use as a tool to check if the power company (or the road maintenance one!) has managed to reconnect the power back (or cut it, as in literally)
- Other than that not so much.
It might be nice to email me about errors and warnings. But at least my fridge will post errors on the temperature displays, and it's usually the same error (compressor is running too long; better clean the coils).
Plus, since it's a Sub-Zero, it's got a pretty cool finishing move.
We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.
I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.
Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".
damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess
Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers
I understand the axe to grind, but what about their spy tech hurts durability or warranty prospects; the thing your comments' parent was talking about?
Huh, two houses back I had a really fucking POS dryer that I got expert at replacing the "Dryer Thermal Fuse" (pick your own youtube video walkthrough) and my foggy memory says in my ear that it was an LG dryer. So I'm thinking, this commenter malfist, doesn't know what he is talking about and I'll go look in my notes.org and... NOPE! It was a Samsung DV42H5000EW/A3 model!
Sorry malfist for thinking bad thoughts. I've redirected all that negative energy back to its rightful owner: Samsung.
The washer next to that dryer was an LG, and in my notes I never touched it.
Always good to reattach to reality.
Ah, I see that the washer/dryer pair we bought new 4 years ago and hauled across the country are LG ThinQs. Very happy with them. Apparently can be "smart" but I shut that down.
Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.
Could be more features lead to more problems. Ice makers are highly desirable and often problematic.
Could be that US runs on 120vac and that means a lot of different parts.
Could be the US market gets more advanced compressors and what not to meet energy efficiency requirements (and maybe reduced noise) and Kazakhstan gets a simpler refrigerator that just keeps working.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life.
When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.
Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
Samsung/LG don't know how to build reliable white home appliances, or don't want to. Or black ones for that matter (remember FUBAR with Samsung bricking their expensive surround system for good? Not so long ago).
No reason to buy those when you have ie some basic Bosch stuff. TBH smart stuff should be left to computers and phones, rest should be dumb as brick. But folks keep buying it for some reason (ie hey Samsung makes good phones, lets buy their fridge), hence crapware everywhere.
In my family we have 3 fridges, 2 washers and 2 dishwashers, and our experience a bit different than the rest of the thread.
The fridges are dead-silent and working great for 7+ years. Washers are also nice, washing for a bit too long but don't wear the clothes down and have better stain removal performance than their peers, and dishwashers are extremely slow and not designed for European market. Their baskets are not suitable for our dishes, we can't fill them efficiently even.
So, from experience their fridges are A-OK, washers are great with some caveats, but dishwashers are not good.
My first choice is still BSH group and Beko, but Samsung is acceptable if required, but LG? Ain't nobody got time for that.
It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
I replaced my AEG washing machine last year after ±10 years of service. The new one, also roughly 200 euro, uses a fraction of the energy, and cleans better. I should have swapped it out way earlier to save money.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
buy professional stuff that's expensive, not consumer gadgetry expensive.
a samsung fridge is expensive because of the gimmicks and high tech integrations.
a sub zero fridge is expensive because of the build quality and manufacturer network , part re-use and larger consumer part availability and market.
I wonder if it's a regional difference. Here in the UK I have their fridge and dryer - both came with 5 year warranty. My inlaws have their fridge in Poland, that came with a 10 year warranty on the compressor. They've had it now for 8 years and it's been working fine. Obviously it's anecdotes, but if a company offers 10 years warranty for something I tend to see that as a strong signal it's going to be at least somewhat reliable.
What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)
Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).
There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
I always joke with people that I hate software in anything but a traditional computers _because_ I'm a software engineer. I want the car with the fewest smart features, a normal door bell, a non-smart washing machine.
Software sucks a lot of the time and it often gets in the way, at least the way it's deployed over the last decade. Very few things in my home should connect to the internet. My phone and computers. Begrudgingly my TV now.
Also, those things that connect to the internet but don't let you have control? They get EOL'd, despite having paid a premium for them. I've never had a stove from this century and they all work fine, because why the hell wouldn't they?
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
Aside: I heard that "eco mode" is typically not actually the most energy efficient mode on most washing machines. Apparently it's a standard mode they have to add so that energy efficiency can be measured across machines, but that means it can't be optimised.
You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.
It's one of those "optimize for X/Y/Z, pick two". The eco mode is usually the best for water usage, but it might use more energy. The fast modes might use more water but less energy. It's hard to do both and still get good results.
Under EU Commission Regulation (EU) 2019/2023, washing machines sold in the European Union must include a mandatory standardized program called "Eco 40-60".
The whole point is to enforce strict legal limits on maximum water and electricity consumption per cycle based on the machine's rated capacity. This it the reason they tend to run for hours - it uses less water and energy than a standard cotton cycle by having longer soak times and using less electricity to heat the water.
In 1995 it took 94 litres of water and 350 kWh/a for a cycle in the average EU washing machine. These measures, amongst others, reduced that to 36 l/cycle and 96 kWh/a in 2020 and an expected 30 l/cycle by 2030.
I'm skeptical of Samsung after having two LCD monitors dies at approximately the same usage hours. I think they were victims of the 2000s capacitor plague.
My house came with Samsung front load washer and drier. They're not wonderful but they're still running for the 6 years I've lived here. I had to replace the drier drum after the rollers deteriorated and gouged out holes in the drum. Then I had to replace the rollers again after a year because I bought cheap rollers :(
Countries with heavy investment in wind and solar are seeing periods of free or negative cost electricity. Ideally, batteries would soak this up for use during peak hours, but smart appliances can be a great way to take advantage. It's a shame that these companies cannot be trusted with our data!
I have a dishwasher that turned out to have an app. I quite like it, but I am going to try and isolate it and only get it integrated into Home Assistant.
That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.
While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.
Once a product is sold, you are dead to me. Go away. That’s the Samsung philosophy. Note that it’s also the philosophy in most parts of the world outside the West. Once transaction is done, that’s it. go away.
Honestly I just loathe korean tech. I still don't get what makes korean brands _extra_ shitty. Like these dark patterns are all over the world but somehow korean brands crank it up to one more level.
My 1984 HotPoint fridge with water and ice still works just fine other than occasional defrost leaks underneath. I pray I never have to replace it, but I have seen a few vintage ones like mine in perfect condition for sale. Adding more technology has not made these things last any longer, but it does add some convenience I suppose. I would prefer a 40+ year lifespan over a potential to brick the device during a test…
In India where people buy the devices with lowest possible cost, i have never seen a smart washing machine so far and rarely a smart fridge. The cost of the smart module doesn’t offset the cost of spying yet i guess.
The R in IoT stands for reliability.
And the S stands for security.
We have RIoTS already... two more letters and we get a Scrabble.
If we'd had RIoTS this stuff might've already been fixed.
The Q in Samsung stands for software quality.
Every single time I see Tizen, I get reminded of this,
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/samsungs-tizen-is-ri...
https://pvs-studio.com/en/blog/posts/cpp/0519/
The E in MBA stands for experience.
Certainly not in their QLED technology..
Remember that Samsung is more of a kingdom of feuding lords than a single unified company
No, it stands for Respect for the Customer
The fridge compressor answers to software? Idiocy. It need be nothing more than a relay attached to a thermocouple. I can see having a smart screen to deliver aps/ads and to collect data on people in the home, but why on earth would that need to actually manipulate temperatures?
Fridge sellers dont want their product to be seen as commodities, because they can't charge a high margin on those type of products.
In 2006 shortly after I bought my (first and still only) home, I bought the cheapest Kenmore fridge from Sears (~$600 at the time) as the one that came with the house failed soon after moving in - it was probably 26 years old with metal grill shelves. I was stretched for money for a bit due to dealing with closing costs, etc. I figured it'd last 5-10 years and I'd just get a new, "better" one when my cashflow wasn't acutely tight.
Despite having since remodelled the kitchen (again spending more than expected as one does when renovating), I kept the fridge...it's still working fine 20 years later, though the plastic drawers are starting to degrade. Next to higher-end German appliances it looks a bit well worn and out of place in an otherwise very nicely renovated kitchen, which my wife and I semi-seriously joke gives the place character.
Every once in awhile I'll wander through an appliance aisle and sigh. Similar fridges feel cheap and are much more expensive. In fancy fridges, I just see more components that'd fail. I'll I really want is a freezer and a fridge. I want need an ice maker (especially after learning how gross they can get). Ideally I'd have a standard old-fashioned sized fridge that had a good separate temperature control for the freezer and is common enough that I can get replacement parts 20 years from now.
The kicker was I now realize the old 26 year old fridge probably just needed a coolant top up. Maybe that wasn't possible as I'm not sure when freon was banned and if it would have been possible to do that.
Old fridges last over two decades. I don't think that Samsung and others want these to last as long.
I guess the sellers and industries should have thought of this when they offloaded manufacturing to cheap countries that can and will undercut them.
Samsung fridges are made in Korea. i.e. not outsourced.
They're just very bad at software.
Most non high-end samsung fridges aren't built in Korea, lower-end fridges are made in Vietnam and midrange fridges are made in China or Thailand. Regardless of Samsung outsourcing they still have to compete with outsourcing firms. There's only so much demand for fridges, 100-200 million fridges a year worldwide, and most of the consumer fridges end up primarily competing on price.
Because the temperature is adjusted and they want to be able to display the current temperature as well as the target on said display? And once you’ve done that, your bean counters will pressure you to shave the BOM.
Not saying it’s smart, just laying out a plausible sequence of events on how they reached that decision
Do they really? When replacing my 20 year old fridge (that had an actual mechanical temperature gauge) with a new one I specifically bought one that had a (now digital, of course) display for the current temperature.
It turned out that the temperature display is completely faked. It always shows exactly the set temperature, from the moment you power it on. I guess because of (actual or imagined) customers complaining why their fridge shows e.g. 7°C when they set it to 4°C.
Incidentally, my new smart AC does exactly the same thing. Subjectively it's worse than the old one at keeping the place not too cold and not too warm, but it makes damn sure to never show the actual measured temperature anywhere.
Everything is getting dumber.
It probably has more to do with consumer fridges being a bang-bang controller situation where temperature will always fluctuate several degrees either side of the desired number.
A thermocouple won't drive a relay.
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone.
That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I find that the anti-smart device brigade among tech enthusiasts is very detached from the reality of what consumers want. The general public does demand smart features and they want them to work well.
The sin here isn’t that the fridge is smart, the sin is that bad software was pushed out.
My particular refrigerator also has a purposefully limited set of features. You’ll notice that real luxury brands like Sub-Zero don’t pack their refrigerators with crazy feature lists and touch screens. Their smart apps are basic and focus on essentials like “door left open” or “change filter” notifications and remote temperature adjustment. They don’t have complicated features like craft cocktail ice and even basic stuff like water dispensing is an optional extra (since it’s assumed that luxury clients may have a separate dedicated reverse osmosis and sparkling water machine for that). They don’t push out frequent updates and they keep their smart functions as modular components since it’s assumed that the refrigerator will remain installed permanently for decades (e.g., you can add a newer control system with touch screen and WiFi to your older Sub-Zero fridge).
It would be nice if non-luxury brands followed some of these philosophies a little more.
...why do you need to change the fridge temperature remotely?
I paid $11,000 for my luxury built-in refrigerator, I expect that functionality to exist since it’s trivial to implement.
I could implement that in a weekend on an ESP board.
When you had an offline fridge did you ever find yourself in a situation where remotely setting the temperature would have been useful?
My non-Samsung fridge lets me change the temperature settings from my phone. That’s why the compressor answers to software. How else would I change the temperature remotely if it didn‘t?
I can't tell if you're serious or sarcastic, so I'll bite: why on Earth would you ever want to change the temperature settings of your fridge?
Does a relay with a thermocouple get you the cycles required for no-frost features? I agree that there should be adequate safeguards at every turn but its not like computerized control of fridge temperature doesn't make sense.
Better to freeze a fridge than to cook it
This holds for most things, actually.
Reminded me of the August incident where the freezers at multiple U.S. Department of Defense commissionaires were remotely triggered to enter into "defrost" mode and cooked all their refrigerated food overnight.
Not as bad a putting a mime in the fridge screen, I suppose...
Reminds me of when Nest thermostats stopped turning on the furnace without an internet connection. If your product fails at its primary job because of some other priority its junk. A thermostat can be as simple as a coiled spring with a mercury switch - no software. Same here, what stupid functionality was so important they failed to ensure the fridge would fridge?
IoT is not for me.
ioT is nice but only for people who know how to make softwares.
The problem here is there is almost always incentive to make that software shit.
I am not an SWE, rather a hardware guy with light software experience, and the next home project on my docket is getting AI to write the code for my own ESP32 thermostat (with a nice e-paper display too).
We have a mix of splits, central air, and gas baseboard, so being able to customize all that to fit our utility pricing time slots is a dream.
Similar to when printer stops printing black when color is gone.
That probably means you've been wasting toner on "enhanced darkness" (check if it's turned on/off).
Color inkjets demand color ink for tracking dots even if it isn't used for anything else.
No, it’s because it can’t print the yellow dots watermark for tracking.
That "feature" and incompetence at The Intercept leaked the identity of Reality Winner.
I have never understood the negative controversy around this.
I expect the printer to use whatever inks it has on hand to print in the best quality it can.
The use of ink is an inevitability.
It always struck me as one of those things analogous to “I don’t understand why my car needs oil when I already put gas in it.”
Just give the machine the stuff it requires to operate.
This is disingenuous; a car needs both gas and oil to run. A printer should only need black ink to print black and white documents.
That’s what you think, though, you didn’t design the printer. I assume you don’t have a background in color theory or chemistry or whatever else you need to produce ink.
For all you know, the black ink isn’t really a perfect black and the color inks are used in conjunction with the black ink.
I also think a lot of people are just being cheap about it. It’s just not a big deal.
In my experience a color inkjet printer makes a much better print than a black and white laser printer. If you are willing to sacrifice print quality then buy a black and white laser printer.
Your engine explodes when it doesnt have oil.
A printer can still print black when color ink is gone
A device like a printer can work without certain inks without damage, but at the cost of quality.
Humans have historically been able to decide when quality is low enough that replacement/repair is necessary in these situations. This goes for almost anything: appliances, farming equipment, clothing, etc.
Having a device/appliance/tool that decides for you that “it’s time”, especially when the manufacturer has a vested interest in coercing you into a buying a replacement right away, takes away that owner agency.
My printer could theoretically print a black and white page in magneta when my black ink runs out, too. But logically, it doesn’t want to do that.
I just don’t think it’s a big deal to consider the printer a device that requires all inks to be present to function properly. If the printer is consuming some color inks in order to print black colors better the implication is that less black ink is being consumed. Either way you’re buying ink.
Some people are just cheap.
It’s not cheapness. My kid couldn’t print her homework because I was low on cyan. It’s not that I don’t want to buy more ink, but that the thing I was printing only needed black. If it weren’t a color printer, the output would’ve been identical and it wouldn’t have needed cyan.
No, its tracking dots if you send a criminal printed letter for ransom, they will track you down very quickly. Some people don't like being tracked continuously.
There are 0 other reasons, you being ignorant of basic facts and repeating your weird mantra doesn't change that.
He also supports ID verification on phones/computers. Probably some troll.
There was a brief period before IoT turned to IoS, when the first manufacturers seemed to make an effort in implementation.
IoT need standardized inter-connection APIs enforced on every participent. If you can defect to another supplier- and ecosystem and he can revive your device after a e.g. a "downdate"- the lock in effect disappears and the competition reappars.
A bimetallic strip thermostat with a ‘cool/off/heat’ mode switch and ‘on/off/auto’ for fan control is all anyone actually needs with a fixed speed compressor and generic furnace with a fixed speed fan.
If you have a fancy modulating furnace and variable speed compressor or a variable speed heat pump, a thermostat that uses a PID would work better.
Fixed speed compressors are okay for AC condensers but for tighter applications like heat pumps a variable speed drive offers a good efficiency gain, the problem is there is no standardization established for the driving of say a variable motor since they are all redesigned and unique so when the controller goes kaputz you are out 3-4000 dollars for something that costs 30 dollars to manufacture
Nest/Google also hid microphones in products so ...
Likely not just rotten food but also spoilt medicine. Content of my fridge is a lot more expensive than the fridge.
Imagine a lot of insulin gone to waste.
Yes, freezing insulin destroys it, which is a problem for me when I’m outdoors in the winter.
I have yet to understand what the value proposition of an internet-connected refrigerator is.
I do not disagree with your sentiment. We have had refrigerators for 100+ years [citation needed] after all. Still there are likely cases where it is useful. Looking in on elderly family members might include picking up things from the grocery store and having a list of staples needed might be an example. There are plenty of ways to deal with this but one might be a connected refrigerator.
You would turn up unannounced with things you think are missing from the fridge surveillance camera? Here's how that should go: Visit old person. Check fridge. Check cupboards. Visit store. Visit old person.
You jest but having elderly parents tens of miles outside of town it's a timesaver, luckily I can still request photos of things.
Here's a crazy thought, you could just talk to your elderly family members.
I live with an elderly person (as a caretaker) and find that elderly persons are not always good sources of information about needs. It could be that I am completely wrong about the usefulness of a connected refrigerator (I just look in out 1980's era fridge).
Marketing demands products that sound awesomely cool and new and shiny and feature-laden.
Why should anyone care about stuff that happens after Sales has gotten the customer's money?
As someone who is bad at tracking what food I have in there and how long I have to eat it until it spoils, I can see the use for some automation here and that would be complex enough for convenient updates to make sense. Similarly, when I'm at the store I don't always know if I still have enough of $perishable or if I should get more.
I however have zero trust in our tech industry making this work without abusing me at every possibility so I will never buy such a product.
Your fridge must be a complex place to navigate. We have 70cm wide tall Siemens one and what we have vs what is missing is a question of maybe 10-15s check. This covers 4 people.
Chest freezers would be more tricky if full and could take maybe up to a minute but we don't have those. If you are bad at tracking, make a list.
No, we really don't need 'smart' fridges and people should vote with their wallets.
I can imagine one good use: plotting graphs of inner temperature, configured set point, motor on/off status, door open/closed status, and power consumption. But that use case does not require having control of the fridge compressor...
I’d just throw an analog min/max thermometer in there and investigate if the max temp goes above 40F, sounds a lot easier than adding a temp probe and door switch to a residential refrigerator.
...oddly enough:
It might be nice to email me about errors and warnings. But at least my fridge will post errors on the temperature displays, and it's usually the same error (compressor is running too long; better clean the coils).
Plus, since it's a Sub-Zero, it's got a pretty cool finishing move.
Did Gilfoyle hack Jian Yang's smart fridge again?
freeze-in-hell.bat man!
https://www.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0def6aed-0b5b-4856-874a-d97...
Suck it JinYang.
I hate news websites so much. Everything has to be a fucking joke.
We ended up with a Samsung fridge in our new home. It has no external display or any other indication that it is a "smart" fridge. I only found out when a friend visited who has a Samsung phone and the phone offered to connect to the fridge. We spent the next 30 minutes removing panels from the fridge and found the wifi/bluetooth antenna on a small board under the top-right hinge cover. The board was disconnected and the fridge continues to operate normally.
I am now eyeing my dishwasher very suspiciously.
Yeah, my hot water heater has an app. I'm not happy about this.
Samsung has made garbage appliances for my entire life. A family member went through about 3 different samsung fridges before they swore them off for good. The compressor would routinely break after only a year or 2 of service.
I will never own a Samsung or LG appliance. They are built almost explicitly to force you to get a new one in a couple of years.
Then couple that with both companies trying to use weaselly legal maneuvers like putting the EULA that agrees to arbitration on the outside of a box and saying "If you open this box you agree to the EULA".
damn I really like my samsung fridge and dishwasher that ive had for just over 2 years. Hopefully my fate is not the same cause that dishwasher is quieter than a church mouse. if it is, back to the scratch and dent appliance store for something else I guess
Why are you throwing LG in with Samsung? They routinely have some of the most durable appliances, check consumer reports if you don't believe me. They even offer ten year warranty on their direct drive washer and dryers
There was a US lawsuit against them for their linear compressors: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/consumer/fridge-failures-...
Must be a different branch than the TV's, which spy on what you're talking about
I understand the axe to grind, but what about their spy tech hurts durability or warranty prospects; the thing your comments' parent was talking about?
There's other reasons to avoid LG: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToP9xfLDSME
Huh, two houses back I had a really fucking POS dryer that I got expert at replacing the "Dryer Thermal Fuse" (pick your own youtube video walkthrough) and my foggy memory says in my ear that it was an LG dryer. So I'm thinking, this commenter malfist, doesn't know what he is talking about and I'll go look in my notes.org and... NOPE! It was a Samsung DV42H5000EW/A3 model!
Sorry malfist for thinking bad thoughts. I've redirected all that negative energy back to its rightful owner: Samsung.
The washer next to that dryer was an LG, and in my notes I never touched it.
Always good to reattach to reality.
Ah, I see that the washer/dryer pair we bought new 4 years ago and hauled across the country are LG ThinQs. Very happy with them. Apparently can be "smart" but I shut that down.
[delayed]
Is this lack of quality a US thing?
Where we live (Kazakhstan), we had a Samsung fridge, AC and TV for about 7 years without any issues whatsoever. After moving to a new apartment, we bought another Samsung fridge and it has been quietly humming along for over 2 years now.
I never heard anybody complaining about Samsung.
Could be more features lead to more problems. Ice makers are highly desirable and often problematic.
Could be that US runs on 120vac and that means a lot of different parts.
Could be the US market gets more advanced compressors and what not to meet energy efficiency requirements (and maybe reduced noise) and Kazakhstan gets a simpler refrigerator that just keeps working.
When I moved into my first own flat, family, friends and colleagues pressured me to buy good appliances. They will last longer they said.
Buy Miele for a washing machine, nothing else, they said. I didn't had the money for that, so I bought a washing machine for 250 Euro. It has been going for 11 years, moved two times and doesn't show any signs of going out.
Another friend told me he only buys Samsung fridges. Best machines, one shouldn't buy anything else. I bought a fridge for 200 Euro because I liked the retro look and its red color. Also going strong for 10 years and moving two times. He has got the third Samsung fridge in 10 years now.
Yeah, that's anecdotal but I haven't really found the part where buying something more expensive really helped with expanding its lifespan, rather the contrary where "high tech" broke earlier or more often.
Samsung/LG don't know how to build reliable white home appliances, or don't want to. Or black ones for that matter (remember FUBAR with Samsung bricking their expensive surround system for good? Not so long ago).
No reason to buy those when you have ie some basic Bosch stuff. TBH smart stuff should be left to computers and phones, rest should be dumb as brick. But folks keep buying it for some reason (ie hey Samsung makes good phones, lets buy their fridge), hence crapware everywhere.
In my family we have 3 fridges, 2 washers and 2 dishwashers, and our experience a bit different than the rest of the thread.
The fridges are dead-silent and working great for 7+ years. Washers are also nice, washing for a bit too long but don't wear the clothes down and have better stain removal performance than their peers, and dishwashers are extremely slow and not designed for European market. Their baskets are not suitable for our dishes, we can't fill them efficiently even.
So, from experience their fridges are A-OK, washers are great with some caveats, but dishwashers are not good.
My first choice is still BSH group and Beko, but Samsung is acceptable if required, but LG? Ain't nobody got time for that.
I replaced my AEG washing machine last year after ±10 years of service. The new one, also roughly 200 euro, uses a fraction of the energy, and cleans better. I should have swapped it out way earlier to save money.
buy professional stuff that's expensive, not consumer gadgetry expensive.
a samsung fridge is expensive because of the gimmicks and high tech integrations.
a sub zero fridge is expensive because of the build quality and manufacturer network , part re-use and larger consumer part availability and market.
I wonder if it's a regional difference. Here in the UK I have their fridge and dryer - both came with 5 year warranty. My inlaws have their fridge in Poland, that came with a 10 year warranty on the compressor. They've had it now for 8 years and it's been working fine. Obviously it's anecdotes, but if a company offers 10 years warranty for something I tend to see that as a strong signal it's going to be at least somewhat reliable.
From what people say, if you want french door fridges, Bosch and Fisher Paykel are the ones to go for.
What you should have done is install a webcam, connect it to some SuperMarket AI App Api (tm) and supply your credit card info. Now you never have to worry about food anymore. :)
Ugh, I've avoided connecting my TV to Wifi to avoid all "smart" crap but it does support some "wireless" display from Windows that seems to be local based and I do get periodic requests to connect to other devices (My conundrum now becomes, is the TV safer with or without remote connection/updates).
A lot of devices have optional "smart" functionality. I don't think that's nearly as bad as devices actively connected to the internet.
There's an old joke floating around if anyone remembers where it's from:
A tech enthusiast has the latest and greatest smartphones, voice assistants, and everything else cool and flashy. A programmer has a single inkjet printer from the 90s, and they keep a shotgun by their bedside in case it makes a noise.
if it makes an unexpected noise, to be precise
I'd go with an ancient boat anchor LaserJet but, otherwise, yep.
The earliest that I can track down is https://www.tumblr.com/michaelblume/169525456166/tech-enthus...
Real tech people don't own printers.
(to ruin an otherwise good joke)
I always joke with people that I hate software in anything but a traditional computers _because_ I'm a software engineer. I want the car with the fewest smart features, a normal door bell, a non-smart washing machine.
Software sucks a lot of the time and it often gets in the way, at least the way it's deployed over the last decade. Very few things in my home should connect to the internet. My phone and computers. Begrudgingly my TV now.
Also, those things that connect to the internet but don't let you have control? They get EOL'd, despite having paid a premium for them. I've never had a stove from this century and they all work fine, because why the hell wouldn't they?
Appliances with mandatory wi-fi is a bad trend. The mid-tier dishwasher from Bosch locks the Eco(nomy) energy saver cycle and delayed start functionality behind a smartphone app. This requires connecting the dishwasher to wi-fi and use the smartphone to create a Bosch online account. That's what the whole Jeff Geerling complaint video was all about.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M_hmwBBPnc
Aside: I heard that "eco mode" is typically not actually the most energy efficient mode on most washing machines. Apparently it's a standard mode they have to add so that energy efficiency can be measured across machines, but that means it can't be optimised.
You're typically better off looking for some kind quick/fast mode. Or even the "regular" mode.
(YMMV, look things up for your specific model)
It's one of those "optimize for X/Y/Z, pick two". The eco mode is usually the best for water usage, but it might use more energy. The fast modes might use more water but less energy. It's hard to do both and still get good results.
That's not true in the EU anyway.
Under EU Commission Regulation (EU) 2019/2023, washing machines sold in the European Union must include a mandatory standardized program called "Eco 40-60".
The whole point is to enforce strict legal limits on maximum water and electricity consumption per cycle based on the machine's rated capacity. This it the reason they tend to run for hours - it uses less water and energy than a standard cotton cycle by having longer soak times and using less electricity to heat the water.
In 1995 it took 94 litres of water and 350 kWh/a for a cycle in the average EU washing machine. These measures, amongst others, reduced that to 36 l/cycle and 96 kWh/a in 2020 and an expected 30 l/cycle by 2030.
https://energy-efficient-products.ec.europa.eu/product-list/...
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELE...
Set your BSH free!
https://github.com/hn/bsh-home-appliances
I'm skeptical of Samsung after having two LCD monitors dies at approximately the same usage hours. I think they were victims of the 2000s capacitor plague.
My house came with Samsung front load washer and drier. They're not wonderful but they're still running for the 6 years I've lived here. I had to replace the drier drum after the rollers deteriorated and gouged out holes in the drum. Then I had to replace the rollers again after a year because I bought cheap rollers :(
Countries with heavy investment in wind and solar are seeing periods of free or negative cost electricity. Ideally, batteries would soak this up for use during peak hours, but smart appliances can be a great way to take advantage. It's a shame that these companies cannot be trusted with our data!
I have a dishwasher that turned out to have an app. I quite like it, but I am going to try and isolate it and only get it integrated into Home Assistant.
I'm starting to hate all smart devices. I love my dumb devices that need no updates, internet or subscription. They just work.
That, plus blocking all updates from the 'smart' devices; in the last few years, I dont remember anything getting better from updates, everything is actually getting way worse.
I have a Sonos soundbar. It used to be nice. Now it automatically goes to sleep after a few minutes of tv inactivity. I now hate the device and the company.
My old M1 mbp used to feel super fast. A number of MacOs updates later it feels sluggish. I don't see anything better about MacOs of today vs. 3 years ago, literally NOTHING.
My apple tv now routinely drops airplay -- it used to work flawlessly.
Etc. etc. All those companies push shit updates to keep their existing engineering teams busy.
Or comply with idiotic energy conservation laws in places like Europe.
Don't update anything unless its broken (apart from computer and phone unfortunately). Never connect to wifi.
Literally anything, there is simply no real gain, potential for loss absolute.
How to turn a refrigerator into a brick.
I chuckled at the title.
An official update hard (and permanently) bricked my S8 phone back when it was still the flagship. Samsung refused to fix or replace it because I had moved overseas meanwhile.
While "technically" valid, this never happened with iPhones despite frequent travels.
Don't buy Samsung consumer devices.
The Internet of Things I Won't Buy.
"My fridge has frozen - how do I defrost it?"
Once a product is sold, you are dead to me. Go away. That’s the Samsung philosophy. Note that it’s also the philosophy in most parts of the world outside the West. Once transaction is done, that’s it. go away.
Honestly I just loathe korean tech. I still don't get what makes korean brands _extra_ shitty. Like these dark patterns are all over the world but somehow korean brands crank it up to one more level.
My 1984 HotPoint fridge with water and ice still works just fine other than occasional defrost leaks underneath. I pray I never have to replace it, but I have seen a few vintage ones like mine in perfect condition for sale. Adding more technology has not made these things last any longer, but it does add some convenience I suppose. I would prefer a 40+ year lifespan over a potential to brick the device during a test…
I wonder how energy efficient it is compared to modern refridgerators.
I'm just surprised they didn't freeze it with an ad on screen
Imagine this happening to cars on the road. So much for the connected world paradigm.
Any "centralization" is against humanity and nature.
In India where people buy the devices with lowest possible cost, i have never seen a smart washing machine so far and rarely a smart fridge. The cost of the smart module doesn’t offset the cost of spying yet i guess.
From fridge to freezer
Smart fridges dumb clients.
it's a freezer lgtm