Repo timestamp expected blah blah... toast coming out of nowhere is such a bad design. Really, the architecture in which you absolutely have to download the multi-MB index is as well.
Yes. F-droid allows that, you can have multiple repositories and ... a few of those even exist :)
I'm using that with 2.0 (or rather with F-droid Basic, but I noticed Basic was updated to the same that is described in article, but a while ago). It works just fine.
Very cool, the visual redesign was very much needed and I had been using Droid-ify for a while because of this. I'll switch back to the official app, congrats to the contributors!
All new code in this effort uses modern Android code standards and designs. This gives us a codebase that is easier to maintain, test, and easier to extend with new features in the future.
No, this increases the overall complexity of the system. Android will hopefully eventually collapse under its own weight.
For people who are die-hard F Droid users, do you get all your apps from it? I have tried in the past but it seemed like even when I restricted my use to basics it was missing things I needed to make my phone feel useful. Wonder if it has gotten better.
Aurora works fine for me, and Google's software needn't chug along in a background sandbox no matter if all it can do is install apps, ping back to the mothership what your IP address currently is, and act as a proxy for other apps whose direct internet access you try to deny
Yes, essentially. I do have the Guardian Project repository and I get a handful of applications from the Play Store (via Aurora Store), but everything else comes from F-Droid. If you want even more, you can add the IzzyOnDroid repository[0], but bear in mind that unlike F-Droid, applications are built by developers themselves, and the rules on FOSS-only licensing are less strict.
It did yesterday, for me.
Sometimes it doesn't work for a while and the dev needs some time catching up to what Google deliberately or inadvertently or indifferently put in the way of access to the place where apps are published (and they are published there, not because app creators deliberately chose Google out of many app distributors in some healthy competitive market; there is no choice).
The Aurora project accepts donations, if you want to hurry things along some time! And they have a donation button right there in the app listing, try doing that for yourapp in the PlayStore and see who comes knocking in 3...2..1 to make you a non-person.
It works. I see updates from just 3 hours ago, and generally updates have been pretty constant (I use Shizuku for auto-updates) though manual updates sometimes fail.
What do you find is missing? The main apps I need Google Play for are apps that are tied to a specific company or government service (eg, banking apps, or HMRC). For pretty much all basic functions I think F-Droid does the job.
Store and restaurant apps, discord, streaming apps, most games, payment apps, apps for school, ride-sharing. I tried the "degoogle" way and tossed after two days because that's impossible unless you're willing to adopt a more expensive boomer/millennial lifestyle.
No... I use a combination of Aurora, Obtainium and F-Droid.
Unfortunately there are APP providers actively preventing their apps to work on graphene OS, so i own an extra use@home cheap broken glass iphone for these mandatory but non-graphene apps.
It is a pain and it is getting worse... I'm really tempted to get back to the Apple ecosystem for less shens but currently i cannot do this yet... It just feels wrong but the pain is real. I'm Lösung the fight of investing too mich of my time in things that just should work.
I wouldn't use F-Droid exclusively. Many apps can simply be downloaded from their respective webpages. GrapheneOS also has also its own very basic app store.
FDroid offers the guarantee that the apk was built from source, and at least some marginal safety in terms of having passed their security and analytics/ads checkers.
Obtainium makes it easy to download apps directly from their webpages. Many of them have ready configurations you can simply add: https://apps.obtainium.imranr.dev/
It is not my main device, nor even my secondary device. It’s basically just a device I bought for cheap hoping that maybe I was lucky and it was actually pretty snappy. It’s not snappy :(
I occasionally watch a couple of YouTube videos on it and read a couple of HN posts on it, when my phone is out of battery or when I’m doing a backup of my phone and have left the phone on the table for that.
Anyway, aside from YouTube the other apps I have installed on it myself are all from F-Droid, including the DuckDuckGo browser that I use on it. I also have Signal on it, which I don’t remember if I installed from F-Droid or from Google Play.
My main device that I actually use a lot is an iPhone. And like I said I basically only use the tablet like a couple of hours a week and only to watch a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple HN threads, when I am not able to use my phone for those things.
Most of them, yeah. My main non-F-Droid apps are YT-Music, Google Maps, Duo auth, Bible, and my bank app. Firefox, podcasts, local music player, ebook reader, RSS reader, email client, Matrix client, XMPP client, audiobook player, calendar sync, KeePassDX, SyncThing, Nix terminal, etc are all F-Droid.
I use droid-ify as frontend; and it's been fine to use f-droid repos for most of my needs. I try to install my apps from there in general. Biggest issue for me is android auto capability usually requires the app to be installed from play store (CoMaps) and my music player app (GoneMAD) has a companion unlocker that is from paid app store.
I need banking and bunch of vendor related apps. I need play store for them; so not full on f-droid repos. But close-ish when it comes to phone functionality.
When I need some category of app - say a note app or an audiobook player - I generally check F-Droid first.
If there's a good enough app on there, I generally stick with that as opposed to trying what Google Play has to offer.
I like having that prefiltering, knowing that the app will be open source, not trying to pull anything shady and not have ads or sell my data. On the Play Store, more often than not, at least one of those is not true.
Similar experience for me. I find f-droid a great supplement store but cutting out the default store entirely has felt like more of a commitment than I'm interested in so far.
No I have Obtainium side by side with F-Droid. There are some closed source apps or apps that are not published on F-Droid (like Wireguard) that unfortunately I need. Obtainium is great for that.
Fossify Clock has the best accidental feature: when your alarm is going off, there's no way to stop it except for unlocking your phone, opening the app, finding the current alarm in the list of alarms, and disabling it.
I only use it to install the apps that aren't available on the Play store (e.g. Öffi, an excellent public transit app that gave up on dealing with the Play store after one too many arbitrary removals, Termux, and NewPipe).
The user experience was just too broken for too long to consider it usable (didn't support background updates for about two years after Google made it available, and generally just too much jank and random errors/failures). I might look into it the next time I'm setting up a device, but I think for the majority of apps I'll still go through the Play store - I don't trust F-Droid to be stable/reliable enough yet.
Also, F-Droid Privileged Extension (FPE) is not currently supported by 2.0. That means even if FPE is installed, F-Droid 2.0 won’t use it. This overhaul focused on full featured support for the Android “session” installer. That lets F-Droid run background updates on any recent Android version without requiring FPE. Like with any of the changes here, we welcome feedback.
This is a shame. Is the privileged extension a large maintenance burden?
When Google added the "session" installer to AOSP, we thought it would replace F-Droid Privileged Extension (FPE). So we stopped development on it. The answer now is that the "session" installer mostly replaces FPE, but not fully. So we're exploring reviving development:
https://gitlab.com/fdroid/privileged-extension/-/work_items/...
I have been using droid-ify on GrapheneOS for a few years now; because F-Droid ui is terrible, and the privilege extention has been such a pain to configure and get working without issues on my previous lineageOS phone. Happy to see this major overhaul; and i'm glad the FPE is being phased out.
I tried Neostore. All the info it shows is pretty cool, but ultimately I felt the expierence suffered from all the extra information shown compared to the simpler UI in Droid-ify.
I love Neo Store, because in my book complex > simple. Simplicity of interface = process handcuffs most of the time (IMO). Complexity done right permits so much diversity in composability. I would never ever want a 'simpler' After Effects or GIMP or Blender or Siemens NX. GNOME did it back with GNOME 3 and it has been trash in my book ever since! vomitface.gif
Sometim... err more times than not... there should be a "Your IQ must be at least this high" bar for good software. Stop appealing to the lower common denominators!
I think it is great that there are multiple clients out there, so people have a choice of user experience. One thing that I think is too often overlooked look is if they have implemented the same security and privacy standards as F-Droid, if that's important to you. For example, last I checked, the third party clients where still using index-v1, which is signed using SHA1. Maybe NeoStore updated to index-v2? And there is also quite a bit of effort put into the client-side to make sure it leaks as little as possible to the servers. There are libraries of the official core pieces for third party clients to use to gain many of these protections:
https://f-droid.org/2023/05/02/three-client-libraries.html
They could always close off access claiming ai scraping. If reddit shut their api down now instead of back then they could have also blamed ai and no one would’ve been mad.
Thank you. Used it to uninstall F-droid and roll back to v1 after trying out this new update (ooof... full-blown material ui is not for me. Those progress bars, oh my eyes!)
The old f-droid client made selecting app updates easy. With both v2 and droid-ify, you have to click through for each app. Not a great interface decision :( Why do updates always dumb interfaces down these days?
Super rare? The government seems to release only on an obscure source called Play for some reason. I don't want to play a game, just to ride the transit system. There seem to be a lot of apps that don't release on such an addable source..
The other way is to use fdroid as source within obtainium.
The benefit is to maintain app list at one place, so you can export/import to another device, when needed.
You can use APKUpdater instead, it supports APKMirror, Aptoide, F-Droid, IzzyOnDroid, APKPure, GitLab and GitHub, I tried Obtainium and it was PITA to set up, I am much happier with APKUpdater for apps not covered by Aurora Store
I tried it with 3 random apps for a while, but instantly got into issues. Two stopped updating due to Obtanium falling behind how app releases - for instance, developer changed version numbering scheme but Obtanium didn't expect that, so an outdated version was always presented. It wasn't fixed for quite a while.
I have 23 currently. It's surprising how fast it happened... I don't have any problems, but I don't pay much attention to it and apps seem to update automatically sometimes and after a manual refresh other times.
I've found Droid-ify more reliable at doing background updates, though it still only manages it sometimes (possibly due in some way to how I installed the apps). Hopefully Fdroid's app will be better at this.
I tried Obtainium a while back and didn't like it too much, finding apps seemed difficult.
Then I discovered https://apps.obtainium.imranr.dev/ which makes it very easy. I feel like Obtainium should make this more obvious. It would help adoption a lot.
Fwiw, that link is documented in the readme at https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium so it's not hard for someone to find again. It's also prominent in the Obtainium app UI itself.
I use F-Droid precisely because I don't want that. When https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38505229 happened - and when the same thing happens again in the future, because it will - I explicitly want F-Droid doing some basic due diligence on updates before shipping them to me. Cutting out the middleman is the opposite of what I want.
Counterpoint: I use NewPipe pretty much daily for watching YouTube. One day, YT introduced an API change that broke NewPipe, and so I patiently waited for an update.
A few days passed, and I eventually get a notification from NewPipe prompting for an update. But I can't install it just yet, because of mismatching signatures between the F-Droid and GitHub versions (yes, that's the point, I know...). The F-Droid build took so long to release, that in the meantime, another version of NewPipe came out...
True. And especially for that use, I can imagine that the slow return around is actually a breaking problem. I think there are relatively few apps that need that kind of quick update, and I'm more concerned with malicious authors than that, but it would depend on precisely what you need out of your apps.
Notably, this is still cutting out the middleman and bypassing the extra review that that entails. It's fine as long as you trust everybody involved in publishing the repo, which is probably fine here, but a thing to keep in mind.
This issue happens to some extent within liunux distros too. I think specifically for youtube maybe it would be beneficial for a single core library that deals with the API and is shared by every single project that cares to interface with youtube. Rather than dozens of projects trying to chase youtube changes and overburdening repository maintainers, there would only be a single library whose updates would be fast tracked. This also requires there to be no embedding it in anything too, I don't know how feasible this would be on android/f-droid, but it kinda already happens with yt-dlp in linux distros, but yt-dlp isn't a proper library nor does it deals with all youtube endpoints that a proper youtube frontend would require.
It would perhaps be nice if yt-dlp could eject it's youtube api handling into it's own project that is then augmented to handle anything youtube related and turns into THE library for dealing with youtube.. maybe even call it libyt :)
I've never actually had this issue, for whatever reason. In-app updates to NewPipe (and the various forks) install just fine even if I originally downloaded from F-Droid. Not sure how that works exactly.
I ran into the same issue. The good news is that app is the only one I've had to uninstall and reinstall from an apk because fdroid was so insanely slow. I wish they made an effort to keep up with apps where they need to be updated frequently and stop working entirely if they aren't updated. I can't imagine there are too many apps like that
Dear F-Droud, please stop redirecting me to the Mandarin version automatically without an option to read the original message. Just because I have a Chinese keyboard layout available.
First hit for 'check http headers', in case that helps find out why websites think you want Chinese content. Maybe it's a bug in the website; maybe it's set as your first preference. Please report the bug if there is one!
That's strange, sounds worth reporting. They should be able to tell you if there's anything else to check (maybe some javascript interface says Chinese is the way to go) or if it's really just some strange bug on their end (misdetection of the ip address or so)
Since F-Droid (i.e., the repositories, not the app) builds all apps, a practical solution would be for the repositories (i.e., their signing keys) to be recognized by El Goog. Whether and how much help / obstacle the "maybe we do evil" company puts up for / against this is a different question.
It seems to me this is a blocker to use if google can restrict sideloading like this. Its not going to end with just get people requiring to register their app with an identity. Wont they be able to put presser on f-droid devs to lock out software they consider a threat to some business model?
If the issue Google has with sideloading is really just the rampant app piracy (and the malware that comes with cracked apps) that might be something F-Droid can accomodate.
I don't think malware is the problem, as most malware comes directly via Google's ecosystem carried by ads. Just recently I had to uninstall some app from the play store since it tried to distribute malware through scary pop-ups and had it replaced with something from f-droid for someone I know.
most malware comes directly via Google's ecosystem carried by ads.
Google's own Play Store is filled with outright malware too, no ads needed. The idea that Google has to control what people are allowed to install on their phones isn't really for the protection of anyone except Google.
That newspeak term should just disappeared. It only contributes to the image that downloading and installing an app is something that is outside the "happy path". Installing software of your choice on a device you own shouldn't be demonised
Surely you see how installing unvetted software on a device that holds your entire life, bank info, photos, etc. probably shouldn't be part of the "happy path" for most people. You shouldn't even install software you haven't fully vetted from the google play store. This should be drilled into non-technical people.
Those of us who want to can easily bypass it. My mom who doesn't know what she's doing and gets a phishing email with a fancy apk attached should probably have a hard time using it.
The world may not of ended but to of people have been hurt by malware ruining their computer, cryptolocking all of their company's files for ransom, stealing all of your login credentials, stealing cryptocurrency, taking secret photos with your webcam, screen recording what you are doing on your computer, etc.
The "personal computer" has a terrible track record.
For many decades, people have been mistakenly putting diesel fuel into their gasoline cars, yet we never outlawed diesel vehicles. You can only do so much to protect people without destroying their rights to their property.
Today people get in debt to have the latest orange iPhone, for a long time before that most people in, ok, developed countries somehow got hold of a computer.
a device that holds your entire life, bank info, photos, etc.
I'd see it the other way around and say that a device running an operating system controlled by some company shouldn't hold your entire life, bank info, photos, etc.
How do you get around this? Literally every bank, brokerage, etc... is hell bent on you using your phone for everything from 2FA to passkeys, etc... They dont even imagine people have computers anymore or want two+ physical devices/controls on what can be done with which factors
It requires collective action. Ideally with laws to force interoperability, so folks can move among platforms with ease. Then standards will arise to keep that feasible for app makers.
Without regulation markets coalesce as the winners eat each other like a game of snake. It's a miracle Apple hasn't yet eliminated Android. Although I suppose for some institutions there is only iPhone.
Certainly you can use those, but they're not mandatory (here in Canada at least). Can easily get a card and use physical bank and ATM to do everything, and website logins use email as 2fa.
I'm not sure the situations are comparable when Windows doesn't have this permission system where the apps are still very limited in what they can access unless you grant specific directory access or access to the contact list or such
Have you ever tried to educate a 70+ year old person on this kind of stuff? Their eyes gloss over and they don't care. I've told my mother not to install random apps on her phone several times yet she still does it. I could probably send her a phishing e-mail right now that 'looks like' it's from me (so long as my name is in the from: field that's enough) and she'd follow the instructions to install a malicious apk too.
"Everyone should just be smarter/more educated" is what I used to think as well. I now fully understand some people have no desire to be educated in any way and it's a net good for society to not have a large % of devices compromised.
yes, got my father on linux a decade (or more) ago. He's 84. No problem. Most recently we discussed being vigilant against vishing.
Now my in-laws (similar age) one very demented, the other thinks he knows best because he was a chemical engineer...they could use some built in protections
so ultimately I think some default level of "guardrail" is appropriate, but it should have a not too burdensome escape hatch
The answer to people refusing to care about important things in life is not to put restrictions upon everyone's freedom. Ultimately, being an adult means you have to take responsibility for your actions (or lack thereof). It isn't hard to learn how to use a computer responsibly, and I've known plenty of older people who did so just fine. There's no excuse here.
It is like saying that you should not have free speech because someone might influence 70+ to say stupid stuff (well, that is already happening...).
Family should be responsible on education or making phone of people that are not educated enough (minors, elderly, etc.) limited - I do that using Family Link. I have there my child and also my in-laws - both of them can't install new apps without my permission.
So the tech is already there, one just needs to use it.
The Emacs version for Android makes uses of something like this IIRC by signing a version of Termux with the same key and distributing it in the same SourceForge repo such that Emacs on Android can access CLI tooling like git for example.
Isn't it possible, however complicated, for users to undo the lockdown to install an app? The required 9 steps are noted at https://keepandroidopen.org/ for devices that use Google Play Services.
Irrespective, people should probably be migrating to a GrapheneOS or similar OS asap once the OS ships with a device.
Honestly not as bad as I feared it would be. Still not great and it's moving us farther from the idea that people who paid for the device should be allowed to install what they want on it, but as it stands it's a workable process. We'll see how quickly it takes Google to make it worse
Currently, switching to GrapheneOS means giving Google money. Next year's Motorola-based alternative is also likely going to be several price classes above the Pixels you can currently put GrapheneOS on.
Then buy a Pixel second-hand or when they hit rock-bottom prices, which usually happens after 6 months or so. At some point Google is probably not making a lot of profit from the devices anymore and they want to sell it to you for tracking and to sell Google One subscriptions, which are mostly irrelevant if you use GrapheneOS.
I followed Pixel prices for the last year, and rock-bottom for a 256gb version (the current absolute minimum for a device without an sd, to my eyes) meant 450€.
There are occasional good deals for (unused) older models on eBay, but they're surprisingly rare.
I wonder if Google demands stores to give the old models back, after the release of newer ones; they disappear from every store extremely quickly.
Interesting, here you can still buy the P10 and P10P for hundreds of Euros off and the prices are still trending down. Also many stores still have them. This is not surprising, because Google still sells them themselves, just in fewer colors and storage tiers.
I've tried $1000 phones before and found that they don't do anything different than my cheap phone, other than taking better quality pictures. But at least my cheap phone has an SD card slot and a headphone jack.
The latest pixels are a complete downgrade from the previous year (worse components). That's one huge reason to buy a last year phone (as opposed to a current one).
Updates on this have been slowly trickling out and the best I can discern is you will be able to still install apps from stores like F-Droid, but you have to go through a manual "advanced flow" which will most likely make you wait 24 hours before installing it and make you go through other hoops.
In short, google has referred to this as "increased user friction" to try and deter people from doing this. Essentially not making it impossible; just really frustrating for users so they get sick of the process and just install verified apps through them.
The only way I know around this is to install a custom rom like GrapheneOS or Lineage OS since this change targets Because the policy targets the Google Mobile Services (GMS) framework rather than the foundational Android Open Source Project (AOSP).
It seems google is going to allow an "advanced flow" that is scam resistant by requiring the user to wait 24 hours before they can start installing their own apps. It sucks, but assuming they don't change the plan again, F-Droid should be able to continue working.
It's already live, I had to go through it last week. It's in developer options, then it asks if you're moving the selector to allow the installation of non-play store apps because you're being asked to by someone.
Then it starts a 24 hour timer. When that hits zero, you have 1 hour to go back in and select that you want to install apps on a device you own and paid money to own.
It's not scam-resistant at all. Any scammer will gladly work around this and send someone to one of many malicious apps in the play store, or a malicious URL, or even just set an appointment to call Grandma back the next day.
What? It only stays enabled for exactly 1 hour after the 24 hour timer?
I was under the impression that it would stay enabled permanently after waiting the 24 hours once.
IIRC, it's the button to permanently activate it that is only available for one hour. Once you do manage to press it, you've permanently enabled it. If you miss the window, you have to start the 24 hours again.
They're not necessarily wrong about it being scam resistant, based on some of the research into the psychology of scams. Adding time defuses the urgency of phone scams, leaving plenty of time to seek a second opinion from family members or the internet, and forcing the scammer to re-explain what the original goal was. It's too much time to breathe and defuses the fight or flight reaction needed for a high success rate. You mention URLs, but a web browser based scam page doesn't accomplish much, because the scammer's goal with fake apps is to acquire persistent remote access (akin to how the AnyDesk Android app uses accessibility permissions for Teamviewer-like remote access to an entire phone).
But yeah, it's hilarious that they're pushing this so hard when the Google Play Store still has so much malware.
The current lockdown plan is that you'll need to wait 24 hours before installing the first unauthorized app, right? So probably exactly the same as it is now except setting up a phone will take 24 hours longer.
There is an entire world of Android phones not controlled by Google, including GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and countless variations in China and other places where Google is effectively banned.
It looks exactly the same as now. You will have to do Google's 24 hour flow thing, but it's not like that's going to stop anyone who appreciates what F-droid brings to the table.
Users and maintained packages would probably go down due to less users being able to use it, but users of Android (see GrapheneOS, LineageOS) without Google's Rookit can and will still continue to use it.
From an Android developer perspective, not good. All apps on f-droid will have to be certified by the developer with Google (it's per-app I checked) otherwise they won't work at all. And the process of not easy, even for a verified play store developer, I still have to jump through hoops to register.
Then you have to explain to users how to enable this. Not too mention the onerous F-droid requirements for publishing, it's bad enough as it is.
Average users are not going to do this, just like Google wants. Hopefully someone sues them and wins or we get Linux phones, not holding my breath though
Because nobody uses it except a handful of uber-nerds who can put up with wasting hours of time for "altruism".
The answer to freedom isn't another marketplace. It's legislation that requires Google and Apple to allow web installs without scare walls or deeply hidden permission toggles.
You should be able to just download an app. And Grandma should be able to do it.
There's nothing insecure about it in a world of sandboxing, permissions, scanning, blacklisting, etc. When the tech giants are more than happy to sell ads to malware, you know their "safety" stance is just economic moat protectionism.
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Edit because of rate limits:
This is not derogatory. This is making the point that the wrong battle is being fought. F-droid fans are cheering a small victory, yet losing the entire war.
F-droid does not matter in the grand scheme of things. It's not the point. The point is the app store monopoly. That there are only two platforms and that both are almost completely locked down.
F-droid users don't even see that Google is purposefully allowing this as an antitrust sponge in their calculus. Google doesn't mind because 0.0001% of their users will install this. If they had a sense that the regulators wouldn't bother them, they'd just as well close this loophole. And they probably will eventually.
This isn't beachhead, and even if it was, it isn't sound footing or a stable foundation. It can easily go away.
Because nobody uses it except a handful of uber-nerds who can put up with wasting hours of time for "altruism".
What? I'm not sure how you would manage to waste hours installing a single app and then using it to install other apps, and I'm not using it because of "altruism" (what does that even mean?), I'm using it because it's the best way to get apps.
You should be able to just download an app. And Grandma should be able to do it.
There's nothing insecure about it in a world of sandboxing, permissions, scanning, blacklisting, etc. When the tech giants are more than happy to sell ads to malware, you know their "safety" stance is just economic moat protectionism.
Even if you 100% trust Android's sandboxing and permissions, which is... not a choice I would personally make, I like it when my apps don't have scams or ads internally, either. I'm not worried about Grandma downloading any app off F-Droid; I am a little concerned about what happens if she can download any app being pushed by any random website.
Can't you at least see and file issues and discussions on the respective app's code repo site? This is often although not always sufficient, as the repo owner can censor issues and discussions.
Google has for years censored app reviews anyway on its Play Store, and also allowed too many low-value reviews which drown out useful reviews.
In addition to F-Droid on the device, I'd love an F-Droid "package manager client" on a computer, that allows installing apps on an Android device via adb:
# update repo lists
fdr update
# upgrade all apps on the connected device
fdr upgrade
# search packages
fdr search vlc # lists org.videolan.vlc
# install on the device
fdr install org.mozilla.firefox
# download the apk
fdr download org.mozilla.firefox
# uninstall
fdr uninstall org.mozilla.firefox
Of course, all operations would verify the signatures first.
Amazing news! I mainly use the F-droid Basic version which does automatic updating of apps. The regular one needs user confirmation for updates if I remember correctly.
Can someone recommend a good F/OSS ebook reader on F-Droid? The existing ones I have tested have too many knobs and options and are not really user-friendly.... My wife started to get into reading, but I could not get her to get out of the Kindle/Play Books ecosystem because of the user-friendliness and easy synchronisation across devices that Kindle gives.
Koreader interface with syncthing is not that user friendly to non techs, very powerful can do anything but i don't think i would advise that to non techie
To add to this, since the original comment mentioned kindle, you can jailbreak many of the models and install KOReader in them if you want to keep using the hardware.
And then you can automatically sync your reading process with the KOReader phone app. I use that functionality almost every day for when I don't have my Kindle with me (train ride, lunch break etc).
Try storyteller. It’s an awesome app that does the whispersync thing where you get the audiobook and ebook together, can switch between the two and not lose place, can read both at the same time where the ebook underlines what’s being said. All self hosted though so you need to have a way to…obtain drm free e/audio books.
If you want a cross platform option that's pretty good across Android/iOS/Mac/Windows/Linux, Readest[1] Is another great option. It supports syncing a library of ebooks and is licensed under the AGPL[2].
Koreader is far and away the best. Definitely suffers from the top many knobs problem but if you spend a little time to go through the settings and install a plugin like SimpleUI and Bookends you can get something set up that's ultimately pretty end user friendly and still very powerful. You can use anything you want to sync your library, Google drive, syncthing, self hosted solutions that expose opds, etc.
GrapheneOS security complaints about F-Droid are a load of nonsense except for one: the APK on the website is signed by a different key from the one that F-Droid updates itself with.
I hope the new redesign makes the store easier to navigate on TVs. It's a nightmare trying to install/update apps on F-Droid on either my Nvidia Shield Pro or my Onn 4K TV using the tv remote. The cursor gets lost all the time and it's often impossible to see what option is currently in focus when you click Ok on the remote.
Not any super user but about three/four months, I'm using my device without any google account. Also not using any G service apps such as mail/yt/maps and of course play store. Instead of play store I found aurora store very helpful. "Very" because of the anonymous login future. But sometimes the store disturbs. Newly added apps on Play store doesn't appears on aurora. Also many applications fails to be installed without showing any reason. Some shitty apps redirect to the play store app (which I'm unable to disable but uninstalled her! Updates) and just doesn't works anything more then redirecting me. So I'm still not a fan of Aurora. But it's going not bad. But sometimes I should browse other sites to get old/delated from Play store apps. Also for mod/adless version of some apps.
I heard of fdriod but what I think it may only serves feature less, low UI/UX optimized apps. So didn't installed it yet. But something should be available where people can find all Play store apps (as aurora supplies) + premium/adsense deleted modified apps (random website) + Open source apps (fdroid)…… this will make android insane
is one of the first pieces of text in the first screenshot. With the k on its own line like that. Not usually something I’d comment on, but if you’re showing off a redesign…
That app itself also has some of the most revolting UI I've seen in a modern Android app (Vertical gradient filled buttons with thick gray strokes surrounded by not-quite-Material UI widgets, in a nonsensical custom control they had to go out of their way to make rather than just use a dropdown). Android developers really just don't care.
I think anyone who differentiates between design and functionality has a profound misconception of what design should mean, and are the kind of people who produce terrible interfaces because they just see design as prettifying the functionality. That's why you get buttons that don't look clickable, lines where they're not needed, no lines where they are etc. Good design is a holistic practice, and in the case of apps the interface should be an integral part of the functionality. There's lots of literature out there about things like affordances, but many people don't know about it or don't care enough to use it in practice.
In the literal sense, yes. But in this context it's obvious we are talking about UI/UX design. I am using the exact same terminology in the exact same manner as the person I replied to. So you either have poor reading comprehension or are being purposefully obtuse. Which is it? To be clear, if it is actually the former then you have my sympathy and I hope I cleared this up.
I personally think that software design skills naturally lend themselves to good UX and aesthetic design skills and you can infer one from the other. It's fine if you disagree and I should've said it less objectively
It's annoying and easy to forget, but you have to enable the high-quality line break algorithm per Text component in Compose. Or you have to set two flags (maxLines=1 and overflow=TextOverflow.Ellipsis). I usually end up with a TitleText and BodyText component in my codebases that set these flags internally so I don't have to remember.
I wasn't sure if this was a joke about Android being unintuitive so I was sad to see that enabling high quality line breaks is indeed something you have to configure:
Honestly I'd take that over the hostile vomit that is the google playstore. That thing is an offence to my senses...so many colors and animations trying to grab my attention.
It'll show you updates you haven't done since whatever time period I haven't figured out, but to actually check, from there you have to click 'Manage', then 'Updates available', then 'Check for updates.'
Typically, I have nothing waiting for me in updates, and have to do the above to expose 8 or so apps with updates available.
Absolutely. I'll search for a GOOGLE app to install on a new phone, and it's 3rd on the list, with two completely unrelated apps showing up at the top, waiting to be accidentally clicked and installed, and probably then start popping up ads and other malware.
Great! But why hasn't 2.0 installed automatically on all devices that already have F-Droid?
- go to F-Droid -> Updates. "Congratulations! Your apps are up to date."
- refresh the repositories. "Congratulations! Your apps are up to date."
- search directly for f-droid in apps. "This app was built for an older version of Android and cannot be updated automatically."
*facepalm* never change, F-Droid. You might not be able to automatically update the app because of Android API restrictions, but there's no reason your app can't tell me it knows there's an updated version I could be asked to apply manually, is there?
EDIT: it still says version 1.23.2 is "Suggested" even when 2.0 is installed. Perhaps this is a reason? Nonetheless, there's no setting to choose a different version policy, i.e. install 2.0 because it's newer, even if not "Suggested"
What does "Suggested" even mean? According to https://forum.f-droid.org/t/how-does-f-droid-suggest-a-versi... it's set manually by the person maintaining the metadata, which makes it even more of a facepalm if F-Droid are announcing 2.0 on their homepage but nobody set CurrenVersion=2.0 in their own metadata.
2. Please donate a few EUR/bucks to F-Droid! It's a good place to get Android apps from, and we can't all just mooch off of it. Doesn't have to be a big donation.
3. I am worried that Alpahbet/Google will kill these "unauthorized" apps soon, so that the new version arriving would be kind of bittersweet. Although - maybe I'll just need to switch to LineageOS or something.
Running a malicious build script is just as bad as running a malicious app, so I don´t see why you want that? Also F-droid has fully reproducible builds, so you can be sure you'll get the same binary.
Speed. Most people are going to choose a fast binary download + automated integrity check over compiling from source, regardless of their reason for using F-Droid.
It's sad to see F-Droid using the now-standard design convention of categorically refusing to draw lines between things. No visual differentiation between sections of the UI, no clear indication of what's tappable and what will happen on a tap, no indication of scrollable areas beyond content being cut off. I'm willing to chalk some bad text alignment or uneven padding up to amateur designers working for free, but the design ethos on display, the thoughtless trend-chasing, is depressing to see.
I've only seen the screenshots in the post, but those don't look confusing at all to me. A line between every section is not good or clear UI. I'd argue that grouping related entities by their proximity and leaving enough space in between sections is clearer. If you have to draw a line to make that distinction, they are probably too close.
In the case of the featured sections in the first screenshot, there should at minimum be a visual well indicating the horizontally scrollable strips. Invisible scroll panes are insane.
They’ve already made it obvious that the row is horizontally scrollable by leaving part of the next icon visible at the right edge. That's a clear (and standard) visual cue that there’s more content off-screen.
But... does the whole page scroll at once, and can I tap and drag "between" two rows (slightly above one, slightly below the other) to scroll the whole page? Or does each row scroll independently, and only taps on the row scroll? I habitually don't tap on anything that looks like an icon if I want to scroll around, because I'm afraid I'll activate the icon in a poorly written program (or if I tap too lightly and it is picked up as a tap and not a hold and drag event). So visual cues as to what's scrollable makes it easier for folks like me to know where to tap to scroll things properly.
this is an interesting take. I've never noticed but I just scroll by using a scrolling motion wherever on the screen, and I don't ever seem to hit a button by accident. It sounds like you are purposefully trying to find empty parts of the screen in order to scroll without the risk of hitting buttons. Modern devices are pretty good at figuring out whether you're scrolling or tapping tho. Have you tried just using a scrolling motion and not worrying about the location?
the icons can be scaled with the screen to always have a half icon on the end, just as other layouts scale the icons to always fit a whole number within the screen.
It's sad to see F-Droid using the now-standard design convention of categorically refusing to draw lines between things.
Where exactly would the UI benefit from "drawing lines"? I'd say the visual hierarchy is rather obvious.
I'll say more: most separators people use in their UIs are completely unnecessary. They should be used sporadically when you don't have a better way of segmenting the interface.
No visual differentiation between sections of the UI, no clear indication of what's tappable and what will happen on a tap
What section of the UI are you referring to exactly? From the screenshots in their blog post it seems to me like the visual hierarchy is preserved and without using the app at least I can form an immediate expectation as to the function of each button. (And what is clickable and what isn't)
no indication of scrollable areas beyond content being cut off
What type of indication would you like to see here? I think most users intuitively understand that visual cue. An always-on scrollbar would introduce unnecessary clutter..
User activity heatmaps over the last five years increasingly show that users often tap on things they want regardless of whether that word/graphic/icon has any outward indication of being interactive.
Of course the hottest of hotspots are always the high-contrast button-looking things, but I can understand the trend towards card-ifying or completely unwrapping touch targets given that users stab more freely than they used to.
Surely this should mean "debuff the design of the non-interactable elements (desaturate, shrink,...)" and not "crank up the interactable ones" or "make everything interact!"
Just like "customers keep running into our glass door" doesn't imply approval of glass and it doesn't mean you should turn everything into glass.
It's a race to the bottom. Users have to anticipate designers making inconsistent apps, so designers feel vindicated in their idiosyncratic and frankly user-hostile designs.
I feel like f-droid is still very much a developer / advanced power user tool. I have not tried the 2.0 release candidate yet but with my version I get things like
F-Droid: Repo timestamp expected 1790110069568, but was 1790205675224
IzzyOnDroid F-Droid Repo: Repo timestamp expected 1790100093000, but was 1790272636000
The real problem I think is who should this message go to? My guess is we don't want to have mindless telemetry going from every single user to some central database or repository somewhere. My injection isn't even privacy here. It is that when we have lots of data coming from all over the world, I am afraid someone still has to sift through all this data and make sense of it but we can only understand and prioritize things we already know or are at least able to understand. I feel like this is pulling us in different directions — we want a simpler interface but we also want to expose all sorts of application states that require advanced understanding of how the system works. And someone needs to decide which bucket any particular message goes to — perhaps there is a more opaque but less frightening message like "sync had a hiccup, will retry" or even no message at all surfaces to the user unless it fails multiple consecutive times for the simple, default bucket and more verbose more frequent messages for those who want to see them?
But then even as I write this I can feel like this adds more maintenance headache, even as I push decision making to avoid having to think about a default, I still have to think about a default. The more I think about it, the less sure I am.
I agree. The new version should be better for normal users which should help make F-droid more popular and maybe a real alternative to the Play store for people in general, not just power users.
I just downloaded neostore yesterday because I kept on downloading garbo from fdroid because I had no way of seeing which apps were downloaded a lot (which isn't perfect but pretty good test for the quality of lets say a local music player).
Good on fdroid. Will be removing neostore and going back to fdroid.
I think F-Droid is a great way to discover apps, but I'm not sure I would trust a binary downloaded from its repository the same I trust a binary downloaded from the app's official website or repository. I also remember a few apps clearly stating the F-Droid repo was a few versions behind and the "right" way was to install from their page.
Anyway, this might all become moot very soon if Google prevents us from installing anything from 3rd-party sources.
The builds are reproducible. Developers can also choose to fetch binaries directly from their repositories, and fdroid will verify that those binaries match the sources. So this is actually safer than downloading directly from developer's repo.
Do you rely on Google Play reviews? Those are known to be highly manipulated and you can find any number of services offering to "boost" your reviews. I personally find online posts where people discuss about some app to have more meaningful feedback on it.
I don't use F-Droid often, so maybe my take isn't worth much. But when I opened the new version, I found myself a bit lost. Maybe I just need more time to get used to it.
I haven't used F-Droid since the age of Copperhead when I had an Android phone sitting around for testing purposes only. I never thought it would catch a wave like it has, but I also wasn't really thinking about geopolitical upheaval (not often or entirely seriously anyway) or tech companies angering (this much) everyone, but it is nice to see.
I never got around to trying the Copperhead successor in Graphene.
What I'm taking from this is that no one is happy about anything, ever. New design is fine. Old design is fine. I just want to search for an app and find that app, which is mostly what happens.
I appreciate all the hard work that goes into F-Droid <3
This is very good to see. Classic F-Droid always seemed to fail at updating repos at least every week or so.
Repo timestamp expected blah blah... toast coming out of nowhere is such a bad design. Really, the architecture in which you absolutely have to download the multi-MB index is as well.
The official page still downloads 1.23.2. I wonder when this will go live, and if the old app will auto-update.
Try F-Droid basic, it has this for a few weeks.
Right yeah, I saw this announcement, opened my Fdroid app and clicked around very confused on how to get it to update :S
Same! At the bottom I saw 2.0 was available but 1.23.2 was still marker as "suggested". I had to manually expand 2.0 and install it
Here's the link someone shared in reddit
https://f-droid.org/repo/org.fdroid.fdroid_2000050.apk
That page uses the term ''repository''' singular. Can additional repos be added in the way Neo Store allows?
Yes. F-droid allows that, you can have multiple repositories and ... a few of those even exist :)
I'm using that with 2.0 (or rather with F-droid Basic, but I noticed Basic was updated to the same that is described in article, but a while ago). It works just fine.
It's always been possible on F-Droid, I doubt they would change something like that.
Very cool, the visual redesign was very much needed and I had been using Droid-ify for a while because of this. I'll switch back to the official app, congrats to the contributors!
No, this increases the overall complexity of the system. Android will hopefully eventually collapse under its own weight.
Once GrapheneOS ships on devices, it and Samsung can in time pick up where Android stops.
If only they improve the AndroidTV experience a bit
For people who are die-hard F Droid users, do you get all your apps from it? I have tried in the past but it seemed like even when I restricted my use to basics it was missing things I needed to make my phone feel useful. Wonder if it has gotten better.
I do, but then there is aurora store on f-droid for the gplay only apps.
Note it doesn't work very well, and Graphene recommends using Graphene's sandboxed Play Store instead.
Aurora works fine for me, and Google's software needn't chug along in a background sandbox no matter if all it can do is install apps, ping back to the mothership what your IP address currently is, and act as a proxy for other apps whose direct internet access you try to deny
Yes, essentially. I do have the Guardian Project repository and I get a handful of applications from the Play Store (via Aurora Store), but everything else comes from F-Droid. If you want even more, you can add the IzzyOnDroid repository[0], but bear in mind that unlike F-Droid, applications are built by developers themselves, and the rules on FOSS-only licensing are less strict.
[0]: https://apt.izzysoft.de/fdroid/
does Aurora still work? Last few times I tried, I couldn't install anything.
Last used yesterday found no problem to install random application.
It did yesterday, for me. Sometimes it doesn't work for a while and the dev needs some time catching up to what Google deliberately or inadvertently or indifferently put in the way of access to the place where apps are published (and they are published there, not because app creators deliberately chose Google out of many app distributors in some healthy competitive market; there is no choice).
The Aurora project accepts donations, if you want to hurry things along some time! And they have a donation button right there in the app listing, try doing that for yourapp in the PlayStore and see who comes knocking in 3...2..1 to make you a non-person.
It works. I see updates from just 3 hours ago, and generally updates have been pretty constant (I use Shizuku for auto-updates) though manual updates sometimes fail.
What do you find is missing? The main apps I need Google Play for are apps that are tied to a specific company or government service (eg, banking apps, or HMRC). For pretty much all basic functions I think F-Droid does the job.
Store and restaurant apps, discord, streaming apps, most games, payment apps, apps for school, ride-sharing. I tried the "degoogle" way and tossed after two days because that's impossible unless you're willing to adopt a more expensive boomer/millennial lifestyle.
Aside from payment apps, you can (and probably should) just use the web browser for most of those things
No... I use a combination of Aurora, Obtainium and F-Droid.
Unfortunately there are APP providers actively preventing their apps to work on graphene OS, so i own an extra use@home cheap broken glass iphone for these mandatory but non-graphene apps.
It is a pain and it is getting worse... I'm really tempted to get back to the Apple ecosystem for less shens but currently i cannot do this yet... It just feels wrong but the pain is real. I'm Lösung the fight of investing too mich of my time in things that just should work.
just so you know you could replace Obtainium and F-Droid with APKUpdater which covers both sources and even more, I am using it alongside Aurora
https://github.com/rumboalla/apkupdater
I wouldn't use F-Droid exclusively. Many apps can simply be downloaded from their respective webpages. GrapheneOS also has also its own very basic app store.
FDroid offers the guarantee that the apk was built from source, and at least some marginal safety in terms of having passed their security and analytics/ads checkers.
You lose all that if you go directly to source.
Obtainium makes it easy to download apps directly from their webpages. Many of them have ready configurations you can simply add: https://apps.obtainium.imranr.dev/
I have a slow, crappy tablet I bought on Temu.
It is not my main device, nor even my secondary device. It’s basically just a device I bought for cheap hoping that maybe I was lucky and it was actually pretty snappy. It’s not snappy :(
I occasionally watch a couple of YouTube videos on it and read a couple of HN posts on it, when my phone is out of battery or when I’m doing a backup of my phone and have left the phone on the table for that.
Anyway, aside from YouTube the other apps I have installed on it myself are all from F-Droid, including the DuckDuckGo browser that I use on it. I also have Signal on it, which I don’t remember if I installed from F-Droid or from Google Play.
My main device that I actually use a lot is an iPhone. And like I said I basically only use the tablet like a couple of hours a week and only to watch a couple of YouTube videos and read a couple HN threads, when I am not able to use my phone for those things.
Most of them, yeah. My main non-F-Droid apps are YT-Music, Google Maps, Duo auth, Bible, and my bank app. Firefox, podcasts, local music player, ebook reader, RSS reader, email client, Matrix client, XMPP client, audiobook player, calendar sync, KeePassDX, SyncThing, Nix terminal, etc are all F-Droid.
I use droid-ify as frontend; and it's been fine to use f-droid repos for most of my needs. I try to install my apps from there in general. Biggest issue for me is android auto capability usually requires the app to be installed from play store (CoMaps) and my music player app (GoneMAD) has a companion unlocker that is from paid app store.
I need banking and bunch of vendor related apps. I need play store for them; so not full on f-droid repos. But close-ish when it comes to phone functionality.
When I need some category of app - say a note app or an audiobook player - I generally check F-Droid first.
If there's a good enough app on there, I generally stick with that as opposed to trying what Google Play has to offer.
I like having that prefiltering, knowing that the app will be open source, not trying to pull anything shady and not have ads or sell my data. On the Play Store, more often than not, at least one of those is not true.
Similar experience for me. I find f-droid a great supplement store but cutting out the default store entirely has felt like more of a commitment than I'm interested in so far.
No I have Obtainium side by side with F-Droid. There are some closed source apps or apps that are not published on F-Droid (like Wireguard) that unfortunately I need. Obtainium is great for that.
What features does the wireguard app have that alternatives like WG Tunnel or KabelWacht lack?
I didn't know those apps existed.
Fossify Clock has the best accidental feature: when your alarm is going off, there's no way to stop it except for unlocking your phone, opening the app, finding the current alarm in the list of alarms, and disabling it.
This means you're definitely awake.
I'm being sarcastic.
I only use it to install the apps that aren't available on the Play store (e.g. Öffi, an excellent public transit app that gave up on dealing with the Play store after one too many arbitrary removals, Termux, and NewPipe).
The user experience was just too broken for too long to consider it usable (didn't support background updates for about two years after Google made it available, and generally just too much jank and random errors/failures). I might look into it the next time I'm setting up a device, but I think for the majority of apps I'll still go through the Play store - I don't trust F-Droid to be stable/reliable enough yet.
This is a shame. Is the privileged extension a large maintenance burden?
Are you stuck on an older android version?
not the person you replied to, but i'm staying on Android 8 and 11 as long as i can.
You are heard. But what's your point?
How much are you willing to fork?
I wonder how they got access to the ordinarily Google-locked "session" installer. Did Google open it up because of EU rules? I doubt it.
The support for that was added to Android 14 in 2023: https://developer.android.com/about/versions/14/features#req...
F-Droid took until now to use those APIs.
When Google added the "session" installer to AOSP, we thought it would replace F-Droid Privileged Extension (FPE). So we stopped development on it. The answer now is that the "session" installer mostly replaces FPE, but not fully. So we're exploring reviving development: https://gitlab.com/fdroid/privileged-extension/-/work_items/...
I have been using droid-ify on GrapheneOS for a few years now; because F-Droid ui is terrible, and the privilege extention has been such a pain to configure and get working without issues on my previous lineageOS phone. Happy to see this major overhaul; and i'm glad the FPE is being phased out.
After 10 years of F-droid, I'm bummed I only found droid-ify a couple of months ago. Sooo much better than F-droid.
Check out Neostore too. You'll love it.
There's also Aurora Droid, last time I checked.
I tried Neostore. All the info it shows is pretty cool, but ultimately I felt the expierence suffered from all the extra information shown compared to the simpler UI in Droid-ify.
I love Neo Store, because in my book complex > simple. Simplicity of interface = process handcuffs most of the time (IMO). Complexity done right permits so much diversity in composability. I would never ever want a 'simpler' After Effects or GIMP or Blender or Siemens NX. GNOME did it back with GNOME 3 and it has been trash in my book ever since! vomitface.gif
Sometim... err more times than not... there should be a "Your IQ must be at least this high" bar for good software. Stop appealing to the lower common denominators!
I run into UI glitches and crashes, and decide to not continue using it.
There's also F-Droid Classic. For me Droid-ify never felt quite right + it never worked properly with unattended updates, for me at least.
Me too. But more and more I am using ObtainX now and installing from Github sources. I don't need F-Droid's gatekeeping.
I remember Obtainium being PITA to set up, is there any benefit in ObtainX over APKUpdater from rumboalla? Seems to have way more sources.
https://github.com/rumboalla/apkupdater
I think it is great that there are multiple clients out there, so people have a choice of user experience. One thing that I think is too often overlooked look is if they have implemented the same security and privacy standards as F-Droid, if that's important to you. For example, last I checked, the third party clients where still using index-v1, which is signed using SHA1. Maybe NeoStore updated to index-v2? And there is also quite a bit of effort put into the client-side to make sure it leaks as little as possible to the servers. There are libraries of the official core pieces for third party clients to use to gain many of these protections: https://f-droid.org/2023/05/02/three-client-libraries.html
They could always close off access claiming ai scraping. If reddit shut their api down now instead of back then they could have also blamed ai and no one would’ve been mad.
Why would Fdroid do that? They even package and offer some of these alternate clients in their own repository.
Thank you. Used it to uninstall F-droid and roll back to v1 after trying out this new update (ooof... full-blown material ui is not for me. Those progress bars, oh my eyes!)
The old f-droid client made selecting app updates easy. With both v2 and droid-ify, you have to click through for each app. Not a great interface decision :( Why do updates always dumb interfaces down these days?
What do you mean by "click through for each app"?
agree, droid-ify is very clean, been using it for 5 years now
Why limit yourself only to F-Droid when in APK Updater you can have APKMirror, Aptoide, F-Droid, IzzyOnDroid, APKPure, GitLab and GitHub?
https://github.com/rumboalla/apkupdater
I don't really need app to discover other apps, I need app to install/update the apps I already know.
Cool! Unfortunately I switched to Obtanium a year or so ago. I get all my apps from GitHub releases straight from the developers now.
What do you do for apps that don't have GitHub releases?
You can use it with non-github releases too, but it's super rare when one isn't available. In the case when Obtanium doesn't work, I just use F-Droid.
Super rare? The government seems to release only on an obscure source called Play for some reason. I don't want to play a game, just to ride the transit system. There seem to be a lot of apps that don't release on such an addable source..
I think I’ve encountered 1 or 2 apps that didn’t work on Obtanium so YMMV.
The other way is to use fdroid as source within obtainium. The benefit is to maintain app list at one place, so you can export/import to another device, when needed.
https://apps.obtainium.imranr.dev/ has plenty of apps that don't have F-Droid releases. Many of them come from the developers own website.
And if you see anything is missing, you can always add it!
You can use APKUpdater instead, it supports APKMirror, Aptoide, F-Droid, IzzyOnDroid, APKPure, GitLab and GitHub, I tried Obtainium and it was PITA to set up, I am much happier with APKUpdater for apps not covered by Aurora Store
https://github.com/rumboalla/apkupdater
Do you use a lot of apps with that?
I tried it with 3 random apps for a while, but instantly got into issues. Two stopped updating due to Obtanium falling behind how app releases - for instance, developer changed version numbering scheme but Obtanium didn't expect that, so an outdated version was always presented. It wasn't fixed for quite a while.
I have 23 currently. It's surprising how fast it happened... I don't have any problems, but I don't pay much attention to it and apps seem to update automatically sometimes and after a manual refresh other times.
I've found Droid-ify more reliable at doing background updates, though it still only manages it sometimes (possibly due in some way to how I installed the apps). Hopefully Fdroid's app will be better at this.
Didnt know this! Thanks for sharing !!
The update turnover is so fast for certain apps that I switched back to Fdroid.
Same for me. I typically search on F-Droid to find the apps and then add the github to Obtanium.
I tried Obtainium a while back and didn't like it too much, finding apps seemed difficult.
Then I discovered https://apps.obtainium.imranr.dev/ which makes it very easy. I feel like Obtainium should make this more obvious. It would help adoption a lot.
Fwiw, that link is documented in the readme at https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium so it's not hard for someone to find again. It's also prominent in the Obtainium app UI itself.
I know it is there in Obtainium, but I don't think it's prominent enough and it is easy to miss. I missed it my first time.
I use F-Droid precisely because I don't want that. When https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38505229 happened - and when the same thing happens again in the future, because it will - I explicitly want F-Droid doing some basic due diligence on updates before shipping them to me. Cutting out the middleman is the opposite of what I want.
Counterpoint: I use NewPipe pretty much daily for watching YouTube. One day, YT introduced an API change that broke NewPipe, and so I patiently waited for an update.
A few days passed, and I eventually get a notification from NewPipe prompting for an update. But I can't install it just yet, because of mismatching signatures between the F-Droid and GitHub versions (yes, that's the point, I know...). The F-Droid build took so long to release, that in the meantime, another version of NewPipe came out...
True. And especially for that use, I can imagine that the slow return around is actually a breaking problem. I think there are relatively few apps that need that kind of quick update, and I'm more concerned with malicious authors than that, but it would depend on precisely what you need out of your apps.
Have you added the NewPipe repo in F-Droid? I get updates this way pretty quickly.
https://newpipe.net/FAQ/tutorials/install-add-fdroid-repo/
Notably, this is still cutting out the middleman and bypassing the extra review that that entails. It's fine as long as you trust everybody involved in publishing the repo, which is probably fine here, but a thing to keep in mind.
This issue happens to some extent within liunux distros too. I think specifically for youtube maybe it would be beneficial for a single core library that deals with the API and is shared by every single project that cares to interface with youtube. Rather than dozens of projects trying to chase youtube changes and overburdening repository maintainers, there would only be a single library whose updates would be fast tracked. This also requires there to be no embedding it in anything too, I don't know how feasible this would be on android/f-droid, but it kinda already happens with yt-dlp in linux distros, but yt-dlp isn't a proper library nor does it deals with all youtube endpoints that a proper youtube frontend would require.
It would perhaps be nice if yt-dlp could eject it's youtube api handling into it's own project that is then augmented to handle anything youtube related and turns into THE library for dealing with youtube.. maybe even call it libyt :)
I've never actually had this issue, for whatever reason. In-app updates to NewPipe (and the various forks) install just fine even if I originally downloaded from F-Droid. Not sure how that works exactly.
I ran into the same issue. The good news is that app is the only one I've had to uninstall and reinstall from an apk because fdroid was so insanely slow. I wish they made an effort to keep up with apps where they need to be updated frequently and stop working entirely if they aren't updated. I can't imagine there are too many apps like that
F-Droid doesn't do any due dilligence on updates aside from blocking proprietary code
Same, Obtanium is great.
If you like the Obtanium user experience, I recommend you get involved and help them implement signature verification on F-Droid repos: https://github.com/ImranR98/Obtainium/issues/3348
Haven't yet used it, but I will say that's a great project name
Dear F-Droud, please stop redirecting me to the Mandarin version automatically without an option to read the original message. Just because I have a Chinese keyboard layout available.
What Accept-Language header are you sending?
Not sure, it happened on mobile Firefox. My point is that there should be a way to disable it and switch to a different language manually.
https://wutools.com/dev/testing-debugging/http-header-viewer
First hit for 'check http headers', in case that helps find out why websites think you want Chinese content. Maybe it's a bug in the website; maybe it's set as your first preference. Please report the bug if there is one!
And I'm actually stumped. Firefox is just sending `en-US` on mobile.
I have no idea why it selected Mandarin. I can switch back to English by using the "desktop site" feature that _does_ have a language dropdown.
That's strange, sounds worth reporting. They should be able to tell you if there's anything else to check (maybe some javascript interface says Chinese is the way to go) or if it's really just some strange bug on their end (misdetection of the ip address or so)
What does the future of something like F-Droid look like once Google does their lock down next year?
Since F-Droid (i.e., the repositories, not the app) builds all apps, a practical solution would be for the repositories (i.e., their signing keys) to be recognized by El Goog. Whether and how much help / obstacle the "maybe we do evil" company puts up for / against this is a different question.
It seems to me this is a blocker to use if google can restrict sideloading like this. Its not going to end with just get people requiring to register their app with an identity. Wont they be able to put presser on f-droid devs to lock out software they consider a threat to some business model?
If the issue Google has with sideloading is really just the rampant app piracy (and the malware that comes with cracked apps) that might be something F-Droid can accomodate.
I don't think malware is the problem, as most malware comes directly via Google's ecosystem carried by ads. Just recently I had to uninstall some app from the play store since it tried to distribute malware through scary pop-ups and had it replaced with something from f-droid for someone I know.
Google's own Play Store is filled with outright malware too, no ads needed. The idea that Google has to control what people are allowed to install on their phones isn't really for the protection of anyone except Google.
That newspeak term should just disappeared. It only contributes to the image that downloading and installing an app is something that is outside the "happy path". Installing software of your choice on a device you own shouldn't be demonised
Surely you see how installing unvetted software on a device that holds your entire life, bank info, photos, etc. probably shouldn't be part of the "happy path" for most people. You shouldn't even install software you haven't fully vetted from the google play store. This should be drilled into non-technical people.
Those of us who want to can easily bypass it. My mom who doesn't know what she's doing and gets a phishing email with a fancy apk attached should probably have a hard time using it.
Block installs outside of playstore ON/OFF (ON by default) isn't any less secure. "Sideloading" is scaremongering.
That device was called personal computer for decades, and the world didn't end for the simplicity of installing software on it.
The world may not of ended but to of people have been hurt by malware ruining their computer, cryptolocking all of their company's files for ransom, stealing all of your login credentials, stealing cryptocurrency, taking secret photos with your webcam, screen recording what you are doing on your computer, etc.
The "personal computer" has a terrible track record.
That seems to happen on phones too
Just like people get robbed, it is as common as that.
It doesn't mean one can't buy nice things because one is afraid of being robbed.
For many decades, people have been mistakenly putting diesel fuel into their gasoline cars, yet we never outlawed diesel vehicles. You can only do so much to protect people without destroying their rights to their property.
To be fair, mobile phones being locked down probably contributed to the mass adoption of e.g. mobile payments and banking.
Web banking was offered by all banks long before banking apps, and you could of course access it from smartphones
The move to apps made things more difficult, if anything
The difference is that the only people who used those personal computers were (are) an educated subset of the middle class in developed countries.
No. Plenty of people with no technical knowledge.
Today people get in debt to have the latest orange iPhone, for a long time before that most people in, ok, developed countries somehow got hold of a computer.
Maybe with less brain cells burned by
That hasn't been true since September 1993.
I'd see it the other way around and say that a device running an operating system controlled by some company shouldn't hold your entire life, bank info, photos, etc.
How do you get around this? Literally every bank, brokerage, etc... is hell bent on you using your phone for everything from 2FA to passkeys, etc... They dont even imagine people have computers anymore or want two+ physical devices/controls on what can be done with which factors
It requires collective action. Ideally with laws to force interoperability, so folks can move among platforms with ease. Then standards will arise to keep that feasible for app makers.
Without regulation markets coalesce as the winners eat each other like a game of snake. It's a miracle Apple hasn't yet eliminated Android. Although I suppose for some institutions there is only iPhone.
Certainly you can use those, but they're not mandatory (here in Canada at least). Can easily get a card and use physical bank and ATM to do everything, and website logins use email as 2fa.
My bank tried to push an app, but I never installed it. I live in Germany.
That means education for people: don't perform actions that are in emails.
Blocking apps is like blocking buying of knifes because one can hurt themselves.
Because education has worked so well on Windows.
There's not an easy answer, but the non-answer of "people just need to be educated" is trivially dismissed.
I'm not sure the situations are comparable when Windows doesn't have this permission system where the apps are still very limited in what they can access unless you grant specific directory access or access to the contact list or such
Have you ever tried to educate a 70+ year old person on this kind of stuff? Their eyes gloss over and they don't care. I've told my mother not to install random apps on her phone several times yet she still does it. I could probably send her a phishing e-mail right now that 'looks like' it's from me (so long as my name is in the from: field that's enough) and she'd follow the instructions to install a malicious apk too.
"Everyone should just be smarter/more educated" is what I used to think as well. I now fully understand some people have no desire to be educated in any way and it's a net good for society to not have a large % of devices compromised.
It's full of malicious apps on google play. There are none on f-droid.
The logical conclusion is that fdroid should be allowed and google play banned by default.
yes, got my father on linux a decade (or more) ago. He's 84. No problem. Most recently we discussed being vigilant against vishing.
Now my in-laws (similar age) one very demented, the other thinks he knows best because he was a chemical engineer...they could use some built in protections
so ultimately I think some default level of "guardrail" is appropriate, but it should have a not too burdensome escape hatch
The answer to people refusing to care about important things in life is not to put restrictions upon everyone's freedom. Ultimately, being an adult means you have to take responsibility for your actions (or lack thereof). It isn't hard to learn how to use a computer responsibly, and I've known plenty of older people who did so just fine. There's no excuse here.
It is like saying that you should not have free speech because someone might influence 70+ to say stupid stuff (well, that is already happening...).
Family should be responsible on education or making phone of people that are not educated enough (minors, elderly, etc.) limited - I do that using Family Link. I have there my child and also my in-laws - both of them can't install new apps without my permission.
So the tech is already there, one just needs to use it.
Fully agree. Installing software is installing software, signed or unsigned, app store or not.
Weird how different the mentality is from phones and computers. Or at least from what I remember when I used win 8.
Good point thanks for the clarification. I'll remember that moving forward.
They have to use one key per app, otherwise independent app could end up sharing some permissions (IIRC).
The Emacs version for Android makes uses of something like this IIRC by signing a version of Termux with the same key and distributing it in the same SourceForge repo such that Emacs on Android can access CLI tooling like git for example.
Isn't it possible, however complicated, for users to undo the lockdown to install an app? The required 9 steps are noted at https://keepandroidopen.org/ for devices that use Google Play Services.
Irrespective, people should probably be migrating to a GrapheneOS or similar OS asap once the OS ships with a device.
Ah this is good to know. Awful it's required, but glad there is a work around.
no root on graphene, non starter
Honestly not as bad as I feared it would be. Still not great and it's moving us farther from the idea that people who paid for the device should be allowed to install what they want on it, but as it stands it's a workable process. We'll see how quickly it takes Google to make it worse
Switch to GrapheneOS or HarmonyOS
Currently, switching to GrapheneOS means giving Google money. Next year's Motorola-based alternative is also likely going to be several price classes above the Pixels you can currently put GrapheneOS on.
Then buy a Pixel second-hand or when they hit rock-bottom prices, which usually happens after 6 months or so. At some point Google is probably not making a lot of profit from the devices anymore and they want to sell it to you for tracking and to sell Google One subscriptions, which are mostly irrelevant if you use GrapheneOS.
I followed Pixel prices for the last year, and rock-bottom for a 256gb version (the current absolute minimum for a device without an sd, to my eyes) meant 450€.
There are occasional good deals for (unused) older models on eBay, but they're surprisingly rare.
I wonder if Google demands stores to give the old models back, after the release of newer ones; they disappear from every store extremely quickly.
Interesting, here you can still buy the P10 and P10P for hundreds of Euros off and the prices are still trending down. Also many stores still have them. This is not surprising, because Google still sells them themselves, just in fewer colors and storage tiers.
I don't want to pay more than $150 for a phone, though. And installing an alternate OS is a real hassle.
If the current $500 pixels are too expensive you're going to hate the $1000 motorolas.
Not really, GrapheneOS has a nice web installer that makes all the job for the user.
Stretching that budget to about $350 would get you a new Pixel a-series, on sale. It's well worth it.
I've tried $1000 phones before and found that they don't do anything different than my cheap phone, other than taking better quality pictures. But at least my cheap phone has an SD card slot and a headphone jack.
you can get a pixel 7 good condition for that
There's zero reason to buy a last year phone.
The latest pixels are a complete downgrade from the previous year (worse components). That's one huge reason to buy a last year phone (as opposed to a current one).
Alternative app stores are mandated atleast here in the EU I believe?
Yes but the process to enforce it is intentionally so difficult that nobody can do it.
Yes, but the ability to install any software isn't. goggle can still decide to allow only "official" apps in """3rd party""" stores.
Updates on this have been slowly trickling out and the best I can discern is you will be able to still install apps from stores like F-Droid, but you have to go through a manual "advanced flow" which will most likely make you wait 24 hours before installing it and make you go through other hoops.
In short, google has referred to this as "increased user friction" to try and deter people from doing this. Essentially not making it impossible; just really frustrating for users so they get sick of the process and just install verified apps through them.
The only way I know around this is to install a custom rom like GrapheneOS or Lineage OS since this change targets Because the policy targets the Google Mobile Services (GMS) framework rather than the foundational Android Open Source Project (AOSP).
Wait, it's not 24 hours per app though, is it? Isn't it 24 hours before the "allow installing apps from .apks" setting turns on once and for all?
Yes, you toggle it once and that's it. It also moves with backups so new devices don't need that step.
If I'm a developer I also need to wait 24hrs to test my app?
So you will think really hard about what you're doing instead of just hoping :D
It sounds like moving software devs closer to people doing hardware, they have to wait for their changes a bit longer.
Pushing it with ADB isn't subject to the limitation: Will Android Debug Bridge (ADB) install work without registration? https://developer.android.com/developer-verification/guides/...
when you use adb - no need to wait for 24hours. Just use android studio or adb install
It seems google is going to allow an "advanced flow" that is scam resistant by requiring the user to wait 24 hours before they can start installing their own apps. It sucks, but assuming they don't change the plan again, F-Droid should be able to continue working.
Knowing Google, that's a big assumption
It's already live, I had to go through it last week. It's in developer options, then it asks if you're moving the selector to allow the installation of non-play store apps because you're being asked to by someone.
Then it starts a 24 hour timer. When that hits zero, you have 1 hour to go back in and select that you want to install apps on a device you own and paid money to own.
It's not scam-resistant at all. Any scammer will gladly work around this and send someone to one of many malicious apps in the play store, or a malicious URL, or even just set an appointment to call Grandma back the next day.
What? It only stays enabled for exactly 1 hour after the 24 hour timer? I was under the impression that it would stay enabled permanently after waiting the 24 hours once.
IIRC, it's the button to permanently activate it that is only available for one hour. Once you do manage to press it, you've permanently enabled it. If you miss the window, you have to start the 24 hours again.
They're not necessarily wrong about it being scam resistant, based on some of the research into the psychology of scams. Adding time defuses the urgency of phone scams, leaving plenty of time to seek a second opinion from family members or the internet, and forcing the scammer to re-explain what the original goal was. It's too much time to breathe and defuses the fight or flight reaction needed for a high success rate. You mention URLs, but a web browser based scam page doesn't accomplish much, because the scammer's goal with fake apps is to acquire persistent remote access (akin to how the AnyDesk Android app uses accessibility permissions for Teamviewer-like remote access to an entire phone).
But yeah, it's hilarious that they're pushing this so hard when the Google Play Store still has so much malware.
The current lockdown plan is that you'll need to wait 24 hours before installing the first unauthorized app, right? So probably exactly the same as it is now except setting up a phone will take 24 hours longer.
There is an entire world of Android phones not controlled by Google, including GrapheneOS, LineageOS, and countless variations in China and other places where Google is effectively banned.
It looks exactly the same as now. You will have to do Google's 24 hour flow thing, but it's not like that's going to stop anyone who appreciates what F-droid brings to the table.
Google getting sued again and losing again and drag their feet to unlock it again while devising a new way to go against the court order again.
Users and maintained packages would probably go down due to less users being able to use it, but users of Android (see GrapheneOS, LineageOS) without Google's Rookit can and will still continue to use it.
Pretty bright. So long as you can wait at least 24 hours from making yourself a developer.
From an Android developer perspective, not good. All apps on f-droid will have to be certified by the developer with Google (it's per-app I checked) otherwise they won't work at all. And the process of not easy, even for a verified play store developer, I still have to jump through hoops to register.
Then you have to explain to users how to enable this. Not too mention the onerous F-droid requirements for publishing, it's bad enough as it is.
Average users are not going to do this, just like Google wants. Hopefully someone sues them and wins or we get Linux phones, not holding my breath though
And still no popularity rating, download count or any user review system whatsoever.
Because nobody uses it except a handful of uber-nerds who can put up with wasting hours of time for "altruism".
The answer to freedom isn't another marketplace. It's legislation that requires Google and Apple to allow web installs without scare walls or deeply hidden permission toggles.
You should be able to just download an app. And Grandma should be able to do it.
There's nothing insecure about it in a world of sandboxing, permissions, scanning, blacklisting, etc. When the tech giants are more than happy to sell ads to malware, you know their "safety" stance is just economic moat protectionism.
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Edit because of rate limits:
This is not derogatory. This is making the point that the wrong battle is being fought. F-droid fans are cheering a small victory, yet losing the entire war.
F-droid does not matter in the grand scheme of things. It's not the point. The point is the app store monopoly. That there are only two platforms and that both are almost completely locked down.
F-droid users don't even see that Google is purposefully allowing this as an antitrust sponge in their calculus. Google doesn't mind because 0.0001% of their users will install this. If they had a sense that the regulators wouldn't bother them, they'd just as well close this loophole. And they probably will eventually.
This isn't beachhead, and even if it was, it isn't sound footing or a stable foundation. It can easily go away.
This seems weirdly derogatory towards people that use F-Droid.
As an F-Droid user for idk how many years now, I'd say it's spot on!
Really? I don't understand
at all. I feel like I install apps from the store, and use them. So I'm confused by both "hours of time" and "altruism".
What? I'm not sure how you would manage to waste hours installing a single app and then using it to install other apps, and I'm not using it because of "altruism" (what does that even mean?), I'm using it because it's the best way to get apps.
Even if you 100% trust Android's sandboxing and permissions, which is... not a choice I would personally make, I like it when my apps don't have scams or ads internally, either. I'm not worried about Grandma downloading any app off F-Droid; I am a little concerned about what happens if she can download any app being pushed by any random website.
Can't you at least see and file issues and discussions on the respective app's code repo site? This is often although not always sufficient, as the repo owner can censor issues and discussions.
Google has for years censored app reviews anyway on its Play Store, and also allowed too many low-value reviews which drown out useful reviews.
Except the 2.0 does have a most popular apps section.
In addition to F-Droid on the device, I'd love an F-Droid "package manager client" on a computer, that allows installing apps on an Android device via adb:
Of course, all operations would verify the signatures first.
Like https://github.com/Hoverth/fdroidcl ? :)
Amazing news! I mainly use the F-droid Basic version which does automatic updating of apps. The regular one needs user confirmation for updates if I remember correctly.
F-Droid and F-Droid Basic are the same code base, even more so with 2.0. So the automatic updating support is the same for both.
I wish they would add ratings or even just comments
It's nice to see F-Droid going places.
Great visual and usability update.
Even greater HN conversation about all the to-me-unknown alternatives. I used neostore as a replacement, but maybe time to try f-Droid again
502 Bad Gateway
https://web.archive.org/web/20260924152713/https://f-droid.o...
Urgh such a shame to be written by LLM
Can someone recommend a good F/OSS ebook reader on F-Droid? The existing ones I have tested have too many knobs and options and are not really user-friendly.... My wife started to get into reading, but I could not get her to get out of the Kindle/Play Books ecosystem because of the user-friendliness and easy synchronisation across devices that Kindle gives.
KOReader [1] is my favorite reader. Pairs well with my syncthing library of ebooks (I just keep the phone's copy in read-only mode).
[1] https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.koreader.launcher.fdroid...
Koreader interface with syncthing is not that user friendly to non techs, very powerful can do anything but i don't think i would advise that to non techie
KOReader can update over WiFi as well, right?
To add to this, since the original comment mentioned kindle, you can jailbreak many of the models and install KOReader in them if you want to keep using the hardware.
And then you can automatically sync your reading process with the KOReader phone app. I use that functionality almost every day for when I don't have my Kindle with me (train ride, lunch break etc).
Just to add, KOReader might not look super use friendly at first, but I highly recommend giving it a try. It’s an amazing reader.
Once your used to it, the controls are a lot better than stock kindle as well imo.
Episteme is pretty good
https://github.com/Aryan-Raj3112/episteme
Using readera with network connection disabled. Super app.
I actually use MuPDF for epubs, as well as pdfs.
Me too. It seems to be the only one that does not litter the sdcard directory.
It depends.For me it’s not on app For a dedicated device(phablet/tablet) - KoReader. For Smartphone (no longtime reading) - Librera Reader
Honestly I use Lithium with no network permissions. It's not Foss but it's good enough for me.
I run Calibre Content Server on a VM. So my ebook reading is just accessing that in the browser. Works great.
i would say Librera FD, much better on Android than KOR, specially for images
Even if you have a FOSS ereader app with good sync, where are you gonna get books to read on it?
The only options are stripping the DRM from kobo books or piracy, last I checked.
Try storyteller. It’s an awesome app that does the whispersync thing where you get the audiobook and ebook together, can switch between the two and not lose place, can read both at the same time where the ebook underlines what’s being said. All self hosted though so you need to have a way to…obtain drm free e/audio books.
KOReader is good, as others have mentioned.
If you want a cross platform option that's pretty good across Android/iOS/Mac/Windows/Linux, Readest[1] Is another great option. It supports syncing a library of ebooks and is licensed under the AGPL[2].
[1]: https://readest.com/
[2]: https://github.com/readest/readest
just let her read on kindle, as you've said yourself it's a better option
FB reader? Sync has to be manually config though (Calibre is simplest but probably not for completely non-technical people)
Koreader is far and away the best. Definitely suffers from the top many knobs problem but if you spend a little time to go through the settings and install a plugin like SimpleUI and Bookends you can get something set up that's ultimately pretty end user friendly and still very powerful. You can use anything you want to sync your library, Google drive, syncthing, self hosted solutions that expose opds, etc.
[Liseur](https://github.com/chmouel/liseur) seems nice, if epub is an acceptable format. It's available on F-Droid.
Supposedly it can interface with various sync providers, but I've not tried this myself. The rendering is lovely.
I have spent much time trying to solve this problem. KOreader is okay for looking at a document, but not for long reading sessions.
Unfortunately I have had to go proprietary and use readera premium, which works fine for epubs.
Not the answer to your question but... do your eyes a favor and use an e-ink device for reading.
You can thank me later (in 20 years).
I wonder if FDroid has a policy against LLM? i was reading one of the MR here https://gitlab.com/fdroid/fdroidclient/-/merge_requests/1729 and they seem to gate on LLM contributions (and vibe coded android app)?
In summary of this MR: no, they do not ban AI
lol @ 'ai;dr' to a 2 line PR, anti-ai people really are just bullies now
so nice. FDroid always looked a bit dated to me
Love it new design fdroid basic really smooth in my ancient phone.
Did they implement any GrapheneOS security complaints for it to be deemed actually secure?
GrapheneOS security complaints about F-Droid are a load of nonsense except for one: the APK on the website is signed by a different key from the one that F-Droid updates itself with.
Could you explain? I don't understand what you mean here. https://f-droid.org/F-Droid.apk is signed by the same key that signs https://f-droid.org/repo/entry.jar
Fitting, as there really are only 2.0 trustworthy app stores for Android.
I hope the new redesign makes the store easier to navigate on TVs. It's a nightmare trying to install/update apps on F-Droid on either my Nvidia Shield Pro or my Onn 4K TV using the tv remote. The cursor gets lost all the time and it's often impossible to see what option is currently in focus when you click Ok on the remote.
Have you filed a bug? That's niche enough that i wouldn't necessarily expect the devs to have tested such scenarios.
I just hook up one of those mini Rii keyboards for navigating phone-centric apps on Android TV, but better remote support would be nice as well.
Not any super user but about three/four months, I'm using my device without any google account. Also not using any G service apps such as mail/yt/maps and of course play store. Instead of play store I found aurora store very helpful. "Very" because of the anonymous login future. But sometimes the store disturbs. Newly added apps on Play store doesn't appears on aurora. Also many applications fails to be installed without showing any reason. Some shitty apps redirect to the play store app (which I'm unable to disable but uninstalled her! Updates) and just doesn't works anything more then redirecting me. So I'm still not a fan of Aurora. But it's going not bad. But sometimes I should browse other sites to get old/delated from Play store apps. Also for mod/adless version of some apps.
I heard of fdriod but what I think it may only serves feature less, low UI/UX optimized apps. So didn't installed it yet. But something should be available where people can find all Play store apps (as aurora supplies) + premium/adsense deleted modified apps (random website) + Open source apps (fdroid)…… this will make android insane
I notice that
is one of the first pieces of text in the first screenshot. With the k on its own line like that. Not usually something I’d comment on, but if you’re showing off a redesign…
That app itself also has some of the most revolting UI I've seen in a modern Android app (Vertical gradient filled buttons with thick gray strokes surrounded by not-quite-Material UI widgets, in a nonsensical custom control they had to go out of their way to make rather than just use a dropdown). Android developers really just don't care.
its not an app you open much. I'd prefer them to spend time on the actual functionality
Good design is part of the functionality.
What word would you use to differentiate design and non-design functionality?
I think the terms are usability Vs usefulness.
UX vs UI?
If one says "Good design is part of the functionality", one can also say "Interface is part of the experience".
"can I do something [at all]" vs "how [easy] can I do something"
Business logic
I think anyone who differentiates between design and functionality has a profound misconception of what design should mean, and are the kind of people who produce terrible interfaces because they just see design as prettifying the functionality. That's why you get buttons that don't look clickable, lines where they're not needed, no lines where they are etc. Good design is a holistic practice, and in the case of apps the interface should be an integral part of the functionality. There's lots of literature out there about things like affordances, but many people don't know about it or don't care enough to use it in practice.
design is for people who can't code
Programming is design. Good code requires design sense.
In the literal sense, yes. But in this context it's obvious we are talking about UI/UX design. I am using the exact same terminology in the exact same manner as the person I replied to. So you either have poor reading comprehension or are being purposefully obtuse. Which is it? To be clear, if it is actually the former then you have my sympathy and I hope I cleared this up.
I personally think that software design skills naturally lend themselves to good UX and aesthetic design skills and you can infer one from the other. It's fine if you disagree and I should've said it less objectively
its a lot easier to train people to code than it is to teach them good design.
Now, now, both jobs are equally redundant now we have thinking machines..
code is for people who can't design
Even more reason not to add superfluous visual flourish.
Design is functionality
Or putting `Installed apps` under `Settings`. Still not fixed after 15 years.
System app list is doing almost anything you need for installed apps, I don't think I needed the list in fdroid once in my life.
Surely useful if only to see the list of apps you can trust.
Calling 1.22x F-Droid 2.0 ... sigh.
droidify is a much nicer looking frontend for f-droid
Was talking about syncthing-fork here to be clear, but I also agree
It's annoying and easy to forget, but you have to enable the high-quality line break algorithm per Text component in Compose. Or you have to set two flags (maxLines=1 and overflow=TextOverflow.Ellipsis). I usually end up with a TitleText and BodyText component in my codebases that set these flags internally so I don't have to remember.
I wasn't sure if this was a joke about Android being unintuitive so I was sad to see that enabling high quality line breaks is indeed something you have to configure:
https://developer.android.com/develop/ui/compose/text/style-...
That document literally says that high quality option is the default.
No, it doesn't. It says:
Meaning the developer should opt-in to this explicitly but choose it as the default option. The actual default is no strategy at all.
But it's a fork, isn't it?
Yeah, even AI could tell this design is not really polished.
Honestly I'd take that over the hostile vomit that is the google playstore. That thing is an offence to my senses...so many colors and animations trying to grab my attention.
"F-Droid 2.0: better than hostile vomit"
^ 2026 in a nutshell
I mean, unfortunately it resonates for me. Hah
Outside of that, they keep making the experience worse. It takes six nonintuitive clicks to check for app updates.
What about for some reason cancelling YouTube premium on mobile requires you to go through the store to do it?
While we're on their subject, Amazon customer service chat can only be done on the app, not on browser on mobile.
The future is now!
Long tap Play Store -> My apps -> Updates.
I also noticed that Google gets really offended if you turn off auto updates, and nags you hard to turn it back on.
That saves 1 click(and thanks for that).
It'll show you updates you haven't done since whatever time period I haven't figured out, but to actually check, from there you have to click 'Manage', then 'Updates available', then 'Check for updates.'
Typically, I have nothing waiting for me in updates, and have to do the above to expose 8 or so apps with updates available.
Absolutely. I'll search for a GOOGLE app to install on a new phone, and it's 3rd on the list, with two completely unrelated apps showing up at the top, waiting to be accidentally clicked and installed, and probably then start popping up ads and other malware.
Is it not available yet? Fdroid doesn't update, and downloading and re installing leaves me with the usual app.
Still, excited for when it'll be ready.
Finally a submission at the top of the page that isnt about AI!
Hah, I had the exact same thought. Hacker News has become so exceedingly uninteresting recently
Eh, I bet the luddite boards were all loom talk at the end too.
haha, I kid. I... kid. :(
Shameless plug: I am the developer of Hack, available on both iOS and Android which has a toggle to block AI posts. Maybe you'd find it useful?
But the first comment I read is :'(
Since this made into HN first page, I've been trying to find the APK of this version 2.0...
Am I missing something stupid?
e: my bad, was on desktop and didn't actually try it on my phone (I use Droid-ify anyway)
mhm, that's just loading v1 for me
Thank you, but this APK is not the v2.0.
Great! But why hasn't 2.0 installed automatically on all devices that already have F-Droid?
- go to F-Droid -> Updates. "Congratulations! Your apps are up to date."
- refresh the repositories. "Congratulations! Your apps are up to date."
- search directly for f-droid in apps. "This app was built for an older version of Android and cannot be updated automatically."
*facepalm* never change, F-Droid. You might not be able to automatically update the app because of Android API restrictions, but there's no reason your app can't tell me it knows there's an updated version I could be asked to apply manually, is there?
EDIT: it still says version 1.23.2 is "Suggested" even when 2.0 is installed. Perhaps this is a reason? Nonetheless, there's no setting to choose a different version policy, i.e. install 2.0 because it's newer, even if not "Suggested"
What does "Suggested" even mean? According to https://forum.f-droid.org/t/how-does-f-droid-suggest-a-versi... it's set manually by the person maintaining the metadata, which makes it even more of a facepalm if F-Droid are announcing 2.0 on their homepage but nobody set CurrenVersion=2.0 in their own metadata.
According to the post they only start to roll this out now, gradually...
The beauty of open source is that you can build your own version of F-Droid that works the way you want. See https://github.com/f-droid/fdroidclient
Can I finally block those bible apps?
1. Nice! :-)
2. Please donate a few EUR/bucks to F-Droid! It's a good place to get Android apps from, and we can't all just mooch off of it. Doesn't have to be a big donation.
3. I am worried that Alpahbet/Google will kill these "unauthorized" apps soon, so that the new version arriving would be kind of bittersweet. Although - maybe I'll just need to switch to LineageOS or something.
"F-Droid 2.0 now fetches and installs app updates by default."
Why not download source, review, (edit) and compile on the device, e.g., using Termux, Gradle and Android cmdline-tools
Is "convenience" the rationale for the F-Droid app
Maybe it's the same rationale that drives Linux users toward "binary package managers"
Running a malicious build script is just as bad as running a malicious app, so I don´t see why you want that? Also F-droid has fully reproducible builds, so you can be sure you'll get the same binary.
Speed. Most people are going to choose a fast binary download + automated integrity check over compiling from source, regardless of their reason for using F-Droid.
Search not being a stupid floating button that occasionally disappears anymore is a huge improvement. Especially as it's the most important button.
It's sad to see F-Droid using the now-standard design convention of categorically refusing to draw lines between things. No visual differentiation between sections of the UI, no clear indication of what's tappable and what will happen on a tap, no indication of scrollable areas beyond content being cut off. I'm willing to chalk some bad text alignment or uneven padding up to amateur designers working for free, but the design ethos on display, the thoughtless trend-chasing, is depressing to see.
I've only seen the screenshots in the post, but those don't look confusing at all to me. A line between every section is not good or clear UI. I'd argue that grouping related entities by their proximity and leaving enough space in between sections is clearer. If you have to draw a line to make that distinction, they are probably too close.
In the case of the featured sections in the first screenshot, there should at minimum be a visual well indicating the horizontally scrollable strips. Invisible scroll panes are insane.
They’ve already made it obvious that the row is horizontally scrollable by leaving part of the next icon visible at the right edge. That's a clear (and standard) visual cue that there’s more content off-screen.
But... does the whole page scroll at once, and can I tap and drag "between" two rows (slightly above one, slightly below the other) to scroll the whole page? Or does each row scroll independently, and only taps on the row scroll? I habitually don't tap on anything that looks like an icon if I want to scroll around, because I'm afraid I'll activate the icon in a poorly written program (or if I tap too lightly and it is picked up as a tap and not a hold and drag event). So visual cues as to what's scrollable makes it easier for folks like me to know where to tap to scroll things properly.
this is an interesting take. I've never noticed but I just scroll by using a scrolling motion wherever on the screen, and I don't ever seem to hit a button by accident. It sounds like you are purposefully trying to find empty parts of the screen in order to scroll without the risk of hitting buttons. Modern devices are pretty good at figuring out whether you're scrolling or tapping tho. Have you tried just using a scrolling motion and not worrying about the location?
What happens if my screen width is a multiple of their icon size?
the icons can be scaled with the screen to always have a half icon on the end, just as other layouts scale the icons to always fit a whole number within the screen.
If that clipped column of icons were like K-9's, which has a transparent background and left padding, those clipped icons wouldn't be visible.
Redundancy would be fine. It would help in edge-cases like that.
Where exactly would the UI benefit from "drawing lines"? I'd say the visual hierarchy is rather obvious.
I'll say more: most separators people use in their UIs are completely unnecessary. They should be used sporadically when you don't have a better way of segmenting the interface.
What section of the UI are you referring to exactly? From the screenshots in their blog post it seems to me like the visual hierarchy is preserved and without using the app at least I can form an immediate expectation as to the function of each button. (And what is clickable and what isn't)
What type of indication would you like to see here? I think most users intuitively understand that visual cue. An always-on scrollbar would introduce unnecessary clutter..
You would fit right in at Mozilla.
User activity heatmaps over the last five years increasingly show that users often tap on things they want regardless of whether that word/graphic/icon has any outward indication of being interactive.
Of course the hottest of hotspots are always the high-contrast button-looking things, but I can understand the trend towards card-ifying or completely unwrapping touch targets given that users stab more freely than they used to.
Surely this should mean "debuff the design of the non-interactable elements (desaturate, shrink,...)" and not "crank up the interactable ones" or "make everything interact!"
Just like "customers keep running into our glass door" doesn't imply approval of glass and it doesn't mean you should turn everything into glass.
It's a race to the bottom. Users have to anticipate designers making inconsistent apps, so designers feel vindicated in their idiosyncratic and frankly user-hostile designs.
Just highlighting that Zapstore is also a nice alternative here with better ux and social web of trust app validation.
Tangential...
One of the reasons I went with Android over an iPhone. If F-Droid stops working I am done with Android.
it's beyond me why someone who uses F-Droid would consider an phone from Apple
We need a non-android libre phone
Why would that be better than my GrapheneOS phone?
Finally, F-Droid 2.0! Hope the new repo management is smoother; that's always been a pain point.
I feel like f-droid is still very much a developer / advanced power user tool. I have not tried the 2.0 release candidate yet but with my version I get things like
The real problem I think is who should this message go to? My guess is we don't want to have mindless telemetry going from every single user to some central database or repository somewhere. My injection isn't even privacy here. It is that when we have lots of data coming from all over the world, I am afraid someone still has to sift through all this data and make sense of it but we can only understand and prioritize things we already know or are at least able to understand. I feel like this is pulling us in different directions — we want a simpler interface but we also want to expose all sorts of application states that require advanced understanding of how the system works. And someone needs to decide which bucket any particular message goes to — perhaps there is a more opaque but less frightening message like "sync had a hiccup, will retry" or even no message at all surfaces to the user unless it fails multiple consecutive times for the simple, default bucket and more verbose more frequent messages for those who want to see them?
But then even as I write this I can feel like this adds more maintenance headache, even as I push decision making to avoid having to think about a default, I still have to think about a default. The more I think about it, the less sure I am.
The new version is a lot more dumbed-down and end-user-friendly. (I didn't like it, personally, but I can imagine that more people in general will.)
I agree. The new version should be better for normal users which should help make F-droid more popular and maybe a real alternative to the Play store for people in general, not just power users.
Curious if they've improved repository sync speed. The old one felt like molasses sometimes.
I just downloaded neostore yesterday because I kept on downloading garbo from fdroid because I had no way of seeing which apps were downloaded a lot (which isn't perfect but pretty good test for the quality of lets say a local music player).
Good on fdroid. Will be removing neostore and going back to fdroid.
I think F-Droid is a great way to discover apps, but I'm not sure I would trust a binary downloaded from its repository the same I trust a binary downloaded from the app's official website or repository. I also remember a few apps clearly stating the F-Droid repo was a few versions behind and the "right" way was to install from their page.
Anyway, this might all become moot very soon if Google prevents us from installing anything from 3rd-party sources.
The builds are reproducible. Developers can also choose to fetch binaries directly from their repositories, and fdroid will verify that those binaries match the sources. So this is actually safer than downloading directly from developer's repo.
https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Reproducible_Builds
My problem with F-Droid has always been the lack of app reviews: no way to separate the good from the ugly and the bad.
Do you rely on Google Play reviews? Those are known to be highly manipulated and you can find any number of services offering to "boost" your reviews. I personally find online posts where people discuss about some app to have more meaningful feedback on it.
I use the Google Play reviews, and yes they can be manipulated but that is even less likely on F-Droid where there is less money involved.
This pushes me more and more to buy a Raspberry PI5 so as to enjoy a de-Googled Android experience.
Some of the apps are really good.
I don't use F-Droid often, so maybe my take isn't worth much. But when I opened the new version, I found myself a bit lost. Maybe I just need more time to get used to it.
I haven't used F-Droid since the age of Copperhead when I had an Android phone sitting around for testing purposes only. I never thought it would catch a wave like it has, but I also wasn't really thinking about geopolitical upheaval (not often or entirely seriously anyway) or tech companies angering (this much) everyone, but it is nice to see.
I never got around to trying the Copperhead successor in Graphene.
Are people actively using F-Droid categories to find new apps? I don't think I know anyone who does, and I've only ever used the search functionality.
i have occasionally browsed. but the experience is not very pleasant.. droidify is a bit better but also not much
Yes, games
What I'm taking from this is that no one is happy about anything, ever. New design is fine. Old design is fine. I just want to search for an app and find that app, which is mostly what happens.
I appreciate all the hard work that goes into F-Droid <3