I mean, I feel like even if petrol wasn't as expensive as it is, the sales would be booming anyway, maybe a sliver slower - for the simple reason that affordable EVs are now here and they are pretty damn good now. After years and years of lamenting "where are the EVs for your average Joe Smith" - they are now here. Funnily enough, they aren't made by Volkswagen or Peugeot, but they are here anyway.
And Europe's cheapest new car - Dacia Spring - is an EV.
It's better for the body to keep driving sessions to 3-4 hours max before you get up walk around and charge a bit. 330 mile range is more than enough. If you only use 60% of the battery to maximize its lifespan you can drive for 3.5 hours roughly before you deplete a battery from 80% -> 20%.
There are a number of plausible rural drives in north america which do not have fast chargers for over 400 miles. EV infrastructure in the US is primarily concentrated on high-volume highways.
Aside from the routes the sibling comments mention, you also need to factor in the very real possibility that the chargers won't be functioning. It has gotten better but breakdowns still happen.
I don’t think people understand how convenient it is to be able to go 1000+ KM without thinking about filling up or charging, even if it isn’t in one trip.
I could do it in a 2002 Jetta. Why can’t I do it in a vehicle 25 years newer?
I can get about that on a tank of gas in my cmax. I wouldn't drive it non stop, but it means I can fill up before a long (for me) trip, drive a few hours, stop for food and restrooms, and drive on to my destination without stopping for gas. If it's not that long, I may be able to drive back too, without filling up.
If there's a charger close enough to a restaurant you'll eat at, that sounds convenient, and I've seen a lot more chargers on my long distance drives... but usually not at the restaurants I want to go to.
Exactly. Maybe it is just me, but with a range around 450km I feel like I’m planning trips around filling up. It’s something I never thought about before.
Now I am stuck in line ups for gas because I can’t decide I don’t need it. This is true even just around town.
Maybe it’s a first world issue. It gets better all the time though. Maybe next car.
This attitude of dictating others' car needs for them is one of the biggest hindrances to EV adoption and is also why rolling back CAFE regulations is going to be more popular than you think it is.
The general public doesn't like being told what to do.
The only EVs that offer this range are going to be very expensive. They'll either be from pricey companies like Lucid or they'll be extended-range vehicles from other makers. Are there any under $50k? Most are probably over $60k, and some will be double that.
You're delusional if you think an EV is affordable for an average person. The average person barely makes enough to cover rent, food, bills and save a little money - 15-30k EUR for an entry level EV is out of question. Meanwhile most people can afford to get a late 90s/early 00s used car that will actually get the job done.
In the uk, there can be good deals on used EVs. My Hyundai Kona EV (64kWh) (2022 plate) was £18K for a 18 month old car with 9K miles on the clock and lots of options. It does about 280 miles on a charge and I do have the advantage of cheap home charging (8p per kWh) so it’s under a £5 for my weekly commute.
A big step up from my old Ford fiesta, just look for the deals
According to this data an average Brit would be able to save about 600 GBP monthly if they never had any extra expenses outside of rent and living costs. I don't think even a "good deal" 18k vehicle is affordable for that person.
Average fleet age in EU looks to be around 13 years so when you say "most people", you're likely off by 10-15 years in terms of second hand purchases. Greece might be the only EU country that gets close to what you said. I get the point about affordability but it's good to base discussion on facts.
Also, EVs have been around for quite a few years now so it is no longer necessary to buy them new.
There is still no widespread charging infra. Oh sure, there are chargers. If you're lucky and your town is on a state highway there might be one or two chargers in the entire town — their purpose being so visitors don't become stranded.
Outside of cities, they are not there in sufficient quantity for widespread adoption.
The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
Europe still loves its compact manual transmission cars; but what we may see is a transition away from diesel to petrol vehicles strictly for cost reasons.
that's fine; the issues that electric cars are trying to solve in congested urban areas aren't as prevalent in rural areas, where diesel engines are still going to be doing most of the work anyway
The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
this looms much larger in the imagination than in reality given that the average urban European drives about 9-15km per day. If you're living in a space where charging space is in short supply you in all likelihood drive so little you maybe need to charge 3 times per month.
I’m not claiming this to be an entirely solved issue, but the situations in which EVs make sense are already very broad and keep expanding. The city I live in has lantern chargers (admittedly not everywhere), some others are building them into curbs. Apartment parking spaces and garages are getting chargers installed. If you live rurally, chances are high you can install your own.
Strangely I’d expect urban centers with apartments and street parking to be the problem.
In the US Electric vehicles are easier for those who can park a car next to an outlet they own. We have a lot more suburbia with people owning their own charging.
Who would have imagined that Vladimir Putin would oversee a sizeable NATO expansion, the reduction of European gas usage, and, in combination with Trump, the increased adoption of electric vehicles?
History may look back on them as having done rather a lot to move the world off of fossil fuels.
EVs plus charging with a grid powered by solar when the sun shines bright at midday is one of the most powerful forces in averting anthropogenic climate change.
Gasoline would be $0.99 if EV platforms (build your own whatever) and low cost China Auto imports were available in America. But Elon has a hold on congress.
https://archive.is/dRArj
It's a shame the archive links don't display the graphs, Bloomberg's are usually quite informative.
I mean, I feel like even if petrol wasn't as expensive as it is, the sales would be booming anyway, maybe a sliver slower - for the simple reason that affordable EVs are now here and they are pretty damn good now. After years and years of lamenting "where are the EVs for your average Joe Smith" - they are now here. Funnily enough, they aren't made by Volkswagen or Peugeot, but they are here anyway. And Europe's cheapest new car - Dacia Spring - is an EV.
Im on the verge of switching from PHEV to full EV. I just need a reasonably affordable EV with 450+ mile of range.
Why do you need that much range and what are you looking at that is anywhere near that?
It's better for the body to keep driving sessions to 3-4 hours max before you get up walk around and charge a bit. 330 mile range is more than enough. If you only use 60% of the battery to maximize its lifespan you can drive for 3.5 hours roughly before you deplete a battery from 80% -> 20%.
There are a number of plausible rural drives in north america which do not have fast chargers for over 400 miles. EV infrastructure in the US is primarily concentrated on high-volume highways.
Can you actually name some? Last time I looked the highest I could find was like 100 miles.
Sioux City IA to Lusk WY -- 471 miles between chargers
Kalispell MT to Minot ND -- 688 miles between chargers
Anything in Alaska that isn't along the route from Anchorage to Fairbanks
Much of Ontario 11
All of Newfoundland
Of course, they're not high traffic routes, but these are places you can still easily find gasoline.
Not to mention all of those places are cold, which affects your range.
Taking an EV on US Forest roads sounds like a creative way to get stranded and die.
Aside from the routes the sibling comments mention, you also need to factor in the very real possibility that the chargers won't be functioning. It has gotten better but breakdowns still happen.
I don’t think people understand how convenient it is to be able to go 1000+ KM without thinking about filling up or charging, even if it isn’t in one trip.
I could do it in a 2002 Jetta. Why can’t I do it in a vehicle 25 years newer?
That’s about 9 hours of driving. Don’t you need to stop at least once to take a leak?
I used to do a ~700KM trip fairly regularly without stopping.
Like I said though, the whole convenience isn’t just single trip range.
I can get about that on a tank of gas in my cmax. I wouldn't drive it non stop, but it means I can fill up before a long (for me) trip, drive a few hours, stop for food and restrooms, and drive on to my destination without stopping for gas. If it's not that long, I may be able to drive back too, without filling up.
If there's a charger close enough to a restaurant you'll eat at, that sounds convenient, and I've seen a lot more chargers on my long distance drives... but usually not at the restaurants I want to go to.
Exactly. Maybe it is just me, but with a range around 450km I feel like I’m planning trips around filling up. It’s something I never thought about before.
Now I am stuck in line ups for gas because I can’t decide I don’t need it. This is true even just around town.
Maybe it’s a first world issue. It gets better all the time though. Maybe next car.
Not if you have the right plumbing and a bottle with you.
This attitude of dictating others' car needs for them is one of the biggest hindrances to EV adoption and is also why rolling back CAFE regulations is going to be more popular than you think it is.
The general public doesn't like being told what to do.
The Chevy Silverado EV will go 492 miles.
With a 30 year mortgage the $56K base model payments could be doable.
Im curious - why do you need 450 miles of range?
My tesla goes 3 hours at 80mph. I can get to any charger I need. There are considerably more than I ever imagined.
The only EVs that offer this range are going to be very expensive. They'll either be from pricey companies like Lucid or they'll be extended-range vehicles from other makers. Are there any under $50k? Most are probably over $60k, and some will be double that.
You're delusional if you think an EV is affordable for an average person. The average person barely makes enough to cover rent, food, bills and save a little money - 15-30k EUR for an entry level EV is out of question. Meanwhile most people can afford to get a late 90s/early 00s used car that will actually get the job done.
In the uk, there can be good deals on used EVs. My Hyundai Kona EV (64kWh) (2022 plate) was £18K for a 18 month old car with 9K miles on the clock and lots of options. It does about 280 miles on a charge and I do have the advantage of cheap home charging (8p per kWh) so it’s under a £5 for my weekly commute.
A big step up from my old Ford fiesta, just look for the deals
According to this data an average Brit would be able to save about 600 GBP monthly if they never had any extra expenses outside of rent and living costs. I don't think even a "good deal" 18k vehicle is affordable for that person.
https://movingtotheuk.co.uk/cost-of-living-in-the-uk/average...
https://movingtotheuk.co.uk/cost-of-living-in-the-uk
https://www.livingcost.net/united-kingdom
Average fleet age in EU looks to be around 13 years so when you say "most people", you're likely off by 10-15 years in terms of second hand purchases. Greece might be the only EU country that gets close to what you said. I get the point about affordability but it's good to base discussion on facts.
Also, EVs have been around for quite a few years now so it is no longer necessary to buy them new.
https://www.acea.auto/publication/report-vehicles-on-europea...
Not in rural Europe it isn't.
There is still no widespread charging infra. Oh sure, there are chargers. If you're lucky and your town is on a state highway there might be one or two chargers in the entire town — their purpose being so visitors don't become stranded.
Outside of cities, they are not there in sufficient quantity for widespread adoption.
The apartment problem has not been solved either, and people do not have the time in their lives to dedicate to charging at a shared public charger.
Europe still loves its compact manual transmission cars; but what we may see is a transition away from diesel to petrol vehicles strictly for cost reasons.
that's fine; the issues that electric cars are trying to solve in congested urban areas aren't as prevalent in rural areas, where diesel engines are still going to be doing most of the work anyway
That's fair; but articles like this tend to view reality as black or white, rather than the grey area it is.
I would expect that in rural areas, it's much easier to simply charge at home. It's harder when you live in an apartment and park on the street.
this looms much larger in the imagination than in reality given that the average urban European drives about 9-15km per day. If you're living in a space where charging space is in short supply you in all likelihood drive so little you maybe need to charge 3 times per month.
And this doesn’t even have to mean having to idly wait 20-30 minutes at a fast charger: Lots of shopping and work places have chargers now.
I’m not claiming this to be an entirely solved issue, but the situations in which EVs make sense are already very broad and keep expanding. The city I live in has lantern chargers (admittedly not everywhere), some others are building them into curbs. Apartment parking spaces and garages are getting chargers installed. If you live rurally, chances are high you can install your own.
Strangely I’d expect urban centers with apartments and street parking to be the problem.
In the US Electric vehicles are easier for those who can park a car next to an outlet they own. We have a lot more suburbia with people owning their own charging.
This was probably what people used to say about petrol stations.
Who would have imagined that Vladimir Putin would oversee a sizeable NATO expansion, the reduction of European gas usage, and, in combination with Trump, the increased adoption of electric vehicles?
History may look back on them as having done rather a lot to move the world off of fossil fuels.
Piggybacking, talking about me!now but the last 5 years have shown me i know nothing
Just like how Genghis Khan was responsible for a brief global cooling.
EVs plus charging with a grid powered by solar when the sun shines bright at midday is one of the most powerful forces in averting anthropogenic climate change.
Gasoline would be $0.99 if EV platforms (build your own whatever) and low cost China Auto imports were available in America. But Elon has a hold on congress.