Kudos to cloudflare on this, it looks like a great CLI, I especially like the `cf cli search`.
Related, Matt Pocock's skill for having agents generate an interactive bash script for things only humans can do (or should do), presented in the context of devops like activities
I have found that having the agents write scripts to use tools like this is better (less tokens, more reliability, fewer side quests) than giving it to them directly with markdown they may or may not follow on any given day.
The other benefit to this is that you can put scripts on either side of the agent and remove all credentials from their process, removing whole classes of issues you don't want to have to tell your boss about. CLIs like this are great for read-only debug sessions, but if you are going to make modifications to your cloud infra, keep doing IaC.
I think the shape of clouds and services is going to change given current clouds are uxed for humans. Cloudflare is making the right bet. Specially the free agent report account. That's like a wonderful idea for building agent share.
This is a lot to like here as someone who pretty much exclusively uses the Cloudflare API via agents. Hoping (since it's built on top of Forge), some kind of native terraform support is also in the works.
Great when you're a solo dev deploying a worker, but would be incredible for production deployments if this could also just natively output terraform code.
This is cool, but I've never had an issue with agents working on Cloudflare by just making REST calls. With the rest docs, it knows pretty much everything about what kind of operations it can do. Is the CLI a subset of that or does in encompass everything?
I don't understand why this is written in Typescript. This is a great example of how agents can write code (I'm sure they wrote `cf`), yet having fundamental computer science knowledge is still critical. Do not force your users to manage the dependencies of your cli. Do write your cli in a compiled language. Understand the reason for those decisions and tell your agents to use the correct architecture.
Whether it was deliberate or not, I do not think it's a good choice. When agents can write in any language, there's no reason to pick the wrong tool for the job. At this point Javascript/Typescript belongs only in the browser. It's the suboptimal choice for every other environment. Especially for a command line tool. Even if the back-end is written in Typescript (also not the best choice imho), the clients need not be in the same language.
Typescript and the npm/JS ecosystem may be complex, but you don’t need AGI to figure out how to install a CLI built with TS. My agent can figure out how to install this.
It's not just the complexity. You're also vulnerable to supply chain attacks via NPM. It's also performance as you don't need the entire javascript runtime just for a CLI.
My read is that it's generally the teams that have been assigned to build a certain product that end up choosing the architecture that it runs on. So when we see TypeScript involved in TUI and CLI applications, most of it is just a repurposing of skill sets from that domain into the terminal. In an organization like Cloudflare, I expect that the developers who don't specialize in TypeScript are working on far more important problems.
"Claude, rewrite this in amd64 and arm64 assembly. Optimize it to the max, and make no mistakes. Oh yeah, formally verify it while there, may as well."
No it is exactly right mode for modern tech companies:
1) If it runs on my dime and my infrastructure I will optimize the hell out using most cleverly written Rust and what not and gloat about engineering prowess.
2) If it runs on users computers well then, we have carefully evaluated our strategic direction and come to conclusion that JS/TS/Electron option is the best way to go.
Kudos to cloudflare on this, it looks like a great CLI, I especially like the `cf cli search`.
Related, Matt Pocock's skill for having agents generate an interactive bash script for things only humans can do (or should do), presented in the context of devops like activities
https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/skills/produc...
I have found that having the agents write scripts to use tools like this is better (less tokens, more reliability, fewer side quests) than giving it to them directly with markdown they may or may not follow on any given day.
The other benefit to this is that you can put scripts on either side of the agent and remove all credentials from their process, removing whole classes of issues you don't want to have to tell your boss about. CLIs like this are great for read-only debug sessions, but if you are going to make modifications to your cloud infra, keep doing IaC.
You linked to /skills/productivity/to-questionnaire/SKILL.md
Did you mean to link to /skills/engineering/wizard/SKILL.md ?
ah yea, that is the one!
thanks for surfacing this for everyone
link: https://github.com/mattpocock/skills/blob/main/skills/engine...
I think the shape of clouds and services is going to change given current clouds are uxed for humans. Cloudflare is making the right bet. Specially the free agent report account. That's like a wonderful idea for building agent share.
This is a lot to like here as someone who pretty much exclusively uses the Cloudflare API via agents. Hoping (since it's built on top of Forge), some kind of native terraform support is also in the works.
Great when you're a solo dev deploying a worker, but would be incredible for production deployments if this could also just natively output terraform code.
I don't know what it is about wrangler that made me dislike it so much but I welcome this change since it's meant to replace wrangler.
re: wrangler, my biggest gripe was inconsistency between dev and prod
I think I may be confusing my annoyance with pages vs workers and agents that kept deploying to pages due to outdated training data.
Wrangler still didn't feel great to use.
This is cool, but I've never had an issue with agents working on Cloudflare by just making REST calls. With the rest docs, it knows pretty much everything about what kind of operations it can do. Is the CLI a subset of that or does in encompass everything?
The actual title is
emphasis my own to highlight the key word missing in the HN title
I don't understand why this is written in Typescript. This is a great example of how agents can write code (I'm sure they wrote `cf`), yet having fundamental computer science knowledge is still critical. Do not force your users to manage the dependencies of your cli. Do write your cli in a compiled language. Understand the reason for those decisions and tell your agents to use the correct architecture.
Are you really suggesting that the choice to use Typescript wasn't a deliberate one?
IMO -- it makes total sense within the existing Cloudflare tooling ecosystem.
Whether it was deliberate or not, I do not think it's a good choice. When agents can write in any language, there's no reason to pick the wrong tool for the job. At this point Javascript/Typescript belongs only in the browser. It's the suboptimal choice for every other environment. Especially for a command line tool. Even if the back-end is written in Typescript (also not the best choice imho), the clients need not be in the same language.
Typescript and the npm/JS ecosystem may be complex, but you don’t need AGI to figure out how to install a CLI built with TS. My agent can figure out how to install this.
It's not just the complexity. You're also vulnerable to supply chain attacks via NPM. It's also performance as you don't need the entire javascript runtime just for a CLI.
Code should be written for the user.
My read is that it's generally the teams that have been assigned to build a certain product that end up choosing the architecture that it runs on. So when we see TypeScript involved in TUI and CLI applications, most of it is just a repurposing of skill sets from that domain into the terminal. In an organization like Cloudflare, I expect that the developers who don't specialize in TypeScript are working on far more important problems.
AWS and GCP CLIs have been in Python for a decade or more. Last I checked Python was not a compiled language
Raise your hand if you have been personally traumatized by the miniature standalone py3 distribution bundled within the aws cli.
"Claude, rewrite this in amd64 and arm64 assembly. Optimize it to the max, and make no mistakes. Oh yeah, formally verify it while there, may as well."
No it is exactly right mode for modern tech companies:
1) If it runs on my dime and my infrastructure I will optimize the hell out using most cleverly written Rust and what not and gloat about engineering prowess.
2) If it runs on users computers well then, we have carefully evaluated our strategic direction and come to conclusion that JS/TS/Electron option is the best way to go.
1.0 isn't actually out and CI is red. https://github.com/cloudflare/cf/commits/main/ https://github.com/cloudflare/cf/releases
I have been using the pre-releases with success, but this post could have waited a few days!
It's crazy that some of the best product launches nowadays are CLIs.
Great now i have to uninstall the Cloudfoundry CLI to not collide with this :)