Little by little, people are realising that Europe is at war. Politicians are trying so hard not to say it because of the implications, but there’s only so long you can keep your head buried in the sand.

We’re under constant attacks from Russia… drones, sabotage, cyberattacks, propaganda campaigns derailing our elections…

I’m sick of it.

Yeah, not sure why not at least being upfront about the possibility is so hard. In Spain we've had train derailments, flocks of people being directed on social media to force themselves across borders, subterfuge deluxe everywhere and what not, yet the government is mostly silent and claim it's all unrelated, but it's hard to not also see the parallels across the continent and reach your own conclusions. But then also, don't wanna fall into some conspiracy theory trap either...

Russia isn't the only group interested in doing terrorism in The Netherlands. Recently the Farmers Defense Force and Extinction Rebellion have caused far greater disruption.

Could it be Russia? Obviously. But in my opinion the odds are less than a coin flip.

Recently the Farmers Defense Force and Extinction Rebellion

Why derail trains though, especially in regards to the latter? Given it's one of the most environmental ways for transportation. Besides, groups like that tend to want to take responsibility, the whole point is to get attention to their groups.

You're assuming rational goals instead of thinking in radical acts of terrorism.

Throwing paint at a painting does not help the environment, but it does create radical flank effects.

Blocking the highways does not help agriculture, but it does bring their problems in other people's home / discourse.

You're misunderstanding why they do those things in the first place. You're referencing real activities here, how many of those activities you references people refused to take responsibility for doing?

Look at photos from these events you refer to, people are proudly holding banners and signs here, not trying to be anonymous and flee from police and intelligence services.

Have you never participated in political activism yourself, and you have no clue why you'd do those things you cite?

It's a spectrum. You derail a train and nobody gets hurt? Shout it from the rooftops! You derail a train and people die? "Wasn't me, guv."

Please, do suggest this to any of these environmental activism groups and see how they'll laugh at you. You seriously think these people think like that??

We don't know whether this was Russia, it's just as likely it was the "farmers defence force" or climate activists.

Edit: some context as I'm looking like a Russian shill now, which I understand. Today is the day that the budget gets announced, and the farmer terrorist organization (farmer defence force) have announced actions - and have disrupted highways by setting bales of hay on fire, and all the disruptions happened where farmer concentrations are high.

Regardless, the situation is dire, and probably either the tankies or terror farmers are being helped by Russian destabilizing forces, it's too early to call this disruption an action from the FSB.

if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

Russia started with the hybrid war psyops shit, they don't get to complain about false accusations.

We've had a bunch of these acts of terrorism in Germany in the recent years. Mostly power, but also train and industrial targets. They all came from the same source, which is very much not Russian.

Ah yes, climate activists are widely known for hating public transport especially trains.

I wouldn't say they are widely known for hating the electric grid but hey here we are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_arson_attack_on_the_Berli...

Don't you think those groups would have claimed responsibility by now?

no? if you are diligent you can say nothing and people will hopefully attribute it to your enemies and you get off with your own ploy of looking peaceful and harmless

In which case what do they gain here?

Yeah, my bet is on the farmers. The locations where this happened are all pretty rural and farmers have announced havy actions today.

We in NL need to be more concerned about domestic terrorism than the Russians at the moment. Though I'm sure Russian money and bots are involved in some way.

You think farmers are willing to risk the murder of hundreds of their fellow countrymen as a form of protest? That’s plain terrorism.

Yes, they've already murdered people by causing accidents on the highway.

Are we allowed to call it terrorism now? Or just when it is farmers? I know that both climate activists and BLM have disrupted highways as well....

caused accidents vs >"disrupted"

This equivocation is noted but not compelling

In the case of France it is pretty obvious, they would never attack random people in such a way. They either target public infrastructure or very specific politician/execs properties, not random people, and definitely not in a way that could result in deaths.

Those famously anti-train climate activists…

Farmer advocates are not climate activists, surprisingly they have a negative correlation

What implications? Why wouldn't they want an, in this case real, external enemy they could use to distract the people from their own failures?

Perhaps the external enemy being able to do these things is, in fact, their own failure in a way.

And Russia is winning, they already have neutralized if not subjugated the US, but most of Europe is also heading towards that outcome, and fast. Russia is not this near omnipotent 5D chess mastermind behind all of the scenes in all of politics all across the West, but they are terrifyingly good at exploiting existing trends and influencing trajectories just so and they have been at it with great continuity over many decades. It's starting to really pay off. At this point, it's hard to imagine how the next German federal government could be anything else than either a completely dead-on-arrival coalition of polar opposites that only barely hangs on to keep the AfD out of government but will be unable to do anything at all, or an extremely Russia-friendly government the AfD is part of if not leads that is pretty much certain to continue within the EU what Trump started within NATO. Both outcomes serve Russia well, and the establishment has pretty much handed them that opportunity without meaningful resistance.

I think of it the other way: EU politicians want war but are not able to say it out loud and clear. Instead we get a bunch of "russian sabotage" all over the place with flimsy evidence to back it. Get the simple people into a paranoid state and use it to justify decisions which are already made. Classic FUD. And the people seem to swallow it.

Yeah mate whatever. Instead of scrolling twitter or whatever, donate some of your actual time to Ukraine and start getting up to speed with what Russia is really doing, straight from the source.

Otherwise you’re just going to continue being what is commonly called a “useful idiot”.

Edit: seeing your other posts, seems like you’re well beyond useful idiot territory and either a Russian agent or plain and simply a troll. Of course it’s always the ones you most expect.

Wont donate anything to Ukraine – hopefully the part of my family from there has managed to bring out their boys. Yes, busification is a thing over there, "mate". If the useful idiots here in Europe are strong enough to back a political decision to go to war with Russia, I'm out. But you can go and fight, "mate".

Edit: Seeing you're profiteering from the war [0], case closed I guess.

[0]https://sevenseed.eu/ "Seven Seed is a Brussels-based group dedicated to empowering the European startup ecosystem, focused on the technologies that matter most: Artificial Intelligence and Defence."

Just days after a similar (criminal) incident causing a train to derail in France: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2026/09/12/french-p...

"close to Renault's factory in the town of Cléon", which is now preparing to start manufacturing drones for the French military, in collaboration with Ukrainian military-industrial groups.

Yes. And in combination it completely rules out the suggestion that the Netherlands attack is some kind of local activist protest. (The France attack resulted in several grave injuries and could have just as easily resulted in dozens of deaths.)

that's a huge leap

We should see some claim of responsibility if it was indeed anyone other than the usual suspects.

Why? Russia gains nothing from taking responsibility.

Just days after a similar (criminal) incident causing a train to derail in France

From what I read, the similarity ends in “both involved trains”. This chain of attacks seems to have used short metal pipes (“Footage published by Dutch public broadcaster NOS on Tuesday showed police carrying what appeared to be metal pipes - about 1.5 metres (5ft) long”) to short a connection, making safety systems signal “there’s a train there”, stopping trains further up the track.

The France incident involved a piece of rails heavy enough to cause derailment (“The rail fragment was estimated to weigh between 250 and 300 kilograms”)

My money is on this being a rogue farmers protest.

Could be also rogue farmers paid by Russia. Easiest way for Russia to cause havoc in Europe is through exploiting existing political issues.

The easiest way to hide the incompetence of local european politics, be it expensive diesel or the upcoming economic prices is to blame it all on russia.

Volkswagen is laying off 100k of workers, because they can't make cars people can afford anymore... blame russia! Germans fed up with merz and vote afd? Russia! Macron doesn't even have 20% of support in polls anymore? Russia! Stub your pinky on the corner of the bed? russia!

Explosive-equipped drone attack on airport - Russia! Numerous arson attacks on businesses supplying Ukraine - Russia! Country invaded, cities destroyed, tens of thousands of civilians killed, raped, tortured - Russia.

Don't forget the 2014 Vrbětice explosions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_...

It seems unlikely they would let any political divisions or legitimate grievances go unexploited. It is their cultural core competency for centuries. That does not mean the greivances being exploited aren't valid, or that the parties themselves don't aid in the fracture so they don't have to worry about competition with parties whose ideology is too close to theirs.

Edit: This is reductive, Russia has tons of culture besides this trait, but it is the fundamental strategy that allowed a landlocked state with no natural borders to survive and expand. When you learn a strategy to survive or cope with adversity, it sticks long after it is beneficial.

But all those political divisions are a result of national politics of those countries. People want higher wages, less taxes, affordable housing, more recently cheaper gas/diesel, and in the last decade (or more in some places), less foreign migrants. If no other political party will do anything about that, people are forced to vote for Alternatives (intentionally capitalized).

Especially after all the anti-russian propaganda being false ("three days of rockets left", etc.), after double standards ("ukraine is being attacked, we must help them!", vs "israel is commiting a genocide, we must continue selling them weapons", and "iran was attacked by our buddies, let's send nato (uk, etc) planes to shoot down their counterattacks"). Americans started a war that hurts us every time we go to a gas station and no politician even points a finger at them, no sanctions, no nothing.

It's not russia exploiting the divisions, it's the eu governments being incompetent to the levels never seen before, be it local national governments or EU levels (eg. 3eur customs on everything from china, chat control, etc.).

Look at this for example: https://cbnunfiltered.com/macrons-approval-rating-falls-to-h... macron has 16% approval rating, while 81% see him "unfavorably"... how shitty of a politician do you have to be to not step down when 81% of the country hates you?

If the governments listened to what people wanted and did at least something in that direction (again, top paragraph), people would not be looking for Alternatives (again, intentionally capitalized). Since they don't the Alternatives are the only thing left.

All that's being said is, "Russia is known to exploit political conflicts to harm their enemies".

WHY those conflicts exist is irrelevant.

No one is saying it absolutely, unquestionably was Russian interference. Just that it could be. EDIT: OK, at least one person is saying that. But most people are likely thinking, "Well, could be, might not be... dunno."

The way I see it, both things are true - European politicians and major parties have stirred anger by their incompetence, AND Russia has exploited this anger for their own purposes.

EU has huge flaws, but it's still better than Russia. Germans, French and the British may not understand it, but us unfortunate enough to live next to Russia do. There is a reason why Poland, Baltic countries and now even Finland and Sweden joined NATO. Russia is ruled by evil, murderous tyrants (as is always has been), while EU elite is merely lazy, greedy and incompetent.

I'll choose pro-EU parties over pro-Russian parties as long as EU is not bombing children's hospitals and massacring civilians. I can only hope citizens of other countries do the same, or otherwise there's a pretty good possibility my country will face what Ukraine has suffered.

It's unfortunate that so many alternatives to mainstream parties in big EU countries are also more or less pro-Russian. One should be able to vote against the flaws of European Union without voting for closer ties with Putin.

Russia is ruled by evil, murderous tyrants

Yes, and Stalin was Georgian, Kaganowitch was Ukrainian (and orchestrated the Ukrainian Holodomor), Breshnev was Ukrainian and so on.

The alternative parties are not pro-Russia. They want to trade with a totalitarian regime just like we trade with Saudi Arabia. And they'll break their election promises anyway just like Meloni and Trump broke theirs.

But all those political divisions are a result of national politics of those countries.

Do you claim that Russia doesn't invest in disinformation campaigns against the West?

This is a completely all over the place gish gallop. Both can be true: there's real reporting on acts of sabotage that aren't made up, and there are domestic tensions happening independently of that. The skill is keeping both things in your mind at the same time.

My money is on this being a rogue farmers protest.

I'm French and I heard nothing of the sort, what makes you think of that?

I'm surprised people jump to Russia instead of the radical left. Left-wing environmentalist terrorists attached shunts to rail lines to short out the safety signals back in 2020 in the US [0]. Vulkangruppe has been conducting sabotage in Germany, and a 48-year-old named Daniel V was arrested on suspicion of sabotaging Germany's electrical grid because he hated fossil fuels [1]. The French had left-wing environmentalist terrorists sabotaging the rail network in 2024 [2]. The left has been conducting infrastructure attacks all over Europe this decade, but it's probably more politically expedient to blame Russia.

[0] https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdwa/pr/pair-charged-interferin... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy5zw56lnx3o [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/france-leaning-towards-...

I don't think they look similar, the synchronicity notwithstanding. The sabotage in France was a 250–300 kg rail fragment (per your link). The objects in the Netherlands look much smaller, and look like they're intended to short-circuit two rails to trigger a signal fault. In one place they found car jumper cables with clamps attached to both rails,

https://nos.nl/video/2631081-startkabels-van-spoor-bij-meppe... ("Startkabels van spoor bij Meppel weggehaald")

Not asserting this is definitely a Russian op (given the amount of simultaneous farmers' protests and all in NL today), but their modus operandi for foreign operations of this kind involves paying random thugs a few hundred to a couple thousand euros to carry out acts of sabotage using whatever items they have on hand. The items don't need to match, the people involved don't need to know each other.

Exactly this, and also they are trying to keep some deniability here, so variations are good.

Why would you want to keep it deniable? What's the point in this sort of sabotage if nobody knows you did it?

They seem to be very good at "mob tactics."

No one can prove anything, for example, but anyone knows that people that piss Putin off, need to stay away from windows in high places.

The ideal scenario is everyone suspects it's you but can't prove it.

You have both the desired threat, but no concrete biases for an official response.

Also an uncertainty limits action - it might be a random event, it could even be a false flag.

One of the problem's here is narratives are being spun by multiple actors and it depends on who you believe.

The ideal scenario is everyone suspects it's you but can't prove it.

Why? EU countries have shown time and time again they won't do anything. I mean for God's sake, Russia was caught sending THREE remote controlled flying bomb on a German airfield, with another one found by a passerby before it was launched.

They contained professionally made Russian explosives. There is no doubt who did it. This was not the first, or the 10th time they got caught. I mean Russia murdered someone in the UK with polonium, for God's sake.

The idea that the Kremlin is worried in the slightest that you can prove it's them is absurd. They leave their fingerprints knowing there will be no reaction.

Because being too blatant will galvanize the public and create support for open war.

The goal is to ensure all reasonable people know, while keeping enough deniability that Russian-funded right-wing groups can sow doubt about attribution and response policy’s

They don’t care whether it can be proven in court or by people paying close attention. They care whether it can’t be denied even by their aligned agents in western countries.

Because the Kremlin wants europe to take an overt action to justify mobilization. There are many better assymetric ways for europe to retaliate.

You don't need a real basis for a response. There's nobody here enforcing any rules.

If you wanted you could claim you have evidence, without having any. Doesn't matter.

"This better stop or there will be sanctions, and if its not within your power to stop it, tough luck" is a valid response.

Whether that's wise is another question.

Here's a recent example where Germany so far claimed that it tied the attack to Russia, but whether that's actually true is anyone guess (since there's little publicly verifiable information released so far): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2026_Leipzig_Airport_drone_att...

It wouldn't be terribly surprising if Russia was behind it, but on the other hand it wouldn't be the first false flag incident of this war either.

Well yes technically countries can just attack others. In practice they need to justify those attacks to their allies and populace if they want to maintain the status quo with them. That's where "they started it, we're only defending ourselves" is very helpful.

Because otherwise it would be an act of war. At which point they might as well have just fired a rocket into the country.

If the main point is slowing/frustrating drone production?

It would honestly be kind of fair game to sabotage production of drones that would be used against you, even if they're made in a country you're not at war with --- if it wasn't for Russia having a lot of responsibility for that war in the first place (to put it mildly).

what do you mean "fair game"? by the same logic russia attacking ukraine is also "fair game".

"hei cmon im just atacking my neighbor its fair game, what else should i do"

I mean what I said: if you're being attacked by drones, then no one can fault you for trying to sabotage the production of those drones, even if they're made in a different country than the one which is sending them against you.

But, you can and should fault Russia for getting into that position in the first place, that their neighbor is attacking them back with drones.

Let's say I pay someone to punch you int the face every day. Then one day when you punch me in the face do I have a right to complain?

It's odd that you would jump to "Russian op" and hedging by _not_ asserting that it is "definitely" one; but it very well could also be and arguably even is far more likely an act by someone who would benefit form scaring the public and manipulating the affected governments. I'm not going to assert at all, one way or another who it may be because it could be several actors with interests in producing outcomes of fear among the public and animating and manipulating the respective governments and the clowns in the EU to take actions without thinking.

It is really a rather common playbook of stoking fear and even instigating war not for direct outcomes that has been used innumerable times over history. Only it seems that the majority of people are incapable of seeing, accepting, or maybe just internalizing when they are being played, lied to, and manipulated for the benefit of others at their own expense.

One thing that logic would dictate though is that Russia would be extremely low on the list of suspects since they gain nothing by some minor event like this, are negatively affected in every manner possible by being in any way behind such actions, and they could simply just send barrages of missiles to hit actually meaningful targets if they ever become sick and tired of all the CIA/MI6 clowns thinking they can salami slice their way into conquering Russia and once the Germans and Poles have been whipped up to be the battering ram of minced meat again.

It's why we have so many catastrophic and calamitous events in our history because people never ask themselves who may be benefitting from the act that is immediately used to manipulate people through fear. In spite of having been told and explained a long time ago and many times since, you should always ask you who benefits, cui bono. Russia does not benefit from scaring the populace into supporting the murderous and war mongering governments and the maniacal ruling parasites that control them in order to profit from war as they send your children in to the meat grinder.

One thing that logic would dictate though is that Russia would be extremely low on the list of suspects since they gain nothing and are negatively affected in every manner possible by being in any way behind such actions.

Or one could choose not to take this in isolation from all the acts of brazen and identified sabotage Russia does, slashing deep-sea cables in international waters with their shadow fleets, organizing psyop campaigns throughout the entire continent that can be traced back right to their government units, and so on :-)

Might wanna update your facts on that pipeline.

I'm referring to telecom cables in nordic and baltic waters, not nordstream.

\One thing that logic would dictate though is that Russia would be extremely low on the list of suspects since they gain nothing and are negatively affected in every manner possible by being in any way behind such actions.

They are known for actions that negatively affect them and everyone around. That's kinda their whole thing.

[Quote] They are known for actions that negatively affect them and everyone around. That's kinda their whole thing. [/quote]

You honestly cannot be that gullible?

The ruling class in Europe needs this war for economic reasons. They're orchestrating and selling it to the public by constant fear mongering and provoking conflict.

Even in a relatively intelligent crowd like this forum, people are gullible and easily guided to hate the Other: red ("communists", Russia, China); brown (immigrants, Muslims, Iran); or green ("far left", environmental and civil rights activists). They hate us for our freedoms!

Be afraid, people, and keep funnelling billions of your tax money into the pockets of the rich who profit from literal conspiracy, mass murder and war crimes. No wonder we have endless conflict and fascism on the rise around the world. There's so much money to be made from war and hate, defrauding the public for generations.

How can we not see it, it's the same playbook again and again. One day we will have to face the true evil, the traitors of humanity, the enemy within.

The last thing ‘the ruling class in Europe needs’ is a pan European war! Stability and the system that stability enables is what has put them into positions of power and prosperity in the first place. They actively don’t want outright war and Russia knows this, which is why Russia continually provokes and gets away with acts of sabotage.

There was recently this german lady reporter who posed as actively pro-Putin for few months and it didn't take long for fsb/gru to come to her online.

It started small, just check this or that, little favor there but soon escalated to proper spycraft. Some other folks reported having death threats against family. Its for peanuts, few hundred euros mostly. They just need to find the dumbest and most desperate folks to commit acts of treason.

The chances of this being real are basically zero, or Russia would be getting double agented, and reverse intelling themselves, out the arse. Instead all we get are attempts to connect random events, of which there are endless viable suspects, to Russia.

It's fair to say that if one jumps in the middle of a fight, they should expect to get punched, but it's also fair to say that for now Russia has been avoiding throwing much in the way of punches.

Here's the article in Germany about the incident: https://www.rtl.de/news/russische-spionage-rtl-reporter-unde...

Correct, this is their exact MO and has been for decades. "Random thug" recruitment notwithstanding, part of the point of such ops is to prove to themselves that they can, in fact, reach out and touch a target - i.e., exercising the entire operational chain from C&C down to the minutiae of execution. A kind of integration test for sabotage, if you will. (Not saying this specific incident is or isn't anything in particular, just commenting on the general MO.)

If one were in a charitable mood, one could think of this as a "just in case" measure of ongoing capability assurance in the event of a broader conflict. In a less charitable mood, one might imagine it as preparation for proactive action. In either case, if you don't do this kind of sub-threshold stuff at least occasionally, you often discover that when a real conflict erupts, the capabilities you thought you had are in fact literally or figuratively rusty. (See the Russian army's logistical debacle early in the Ukraine war for a recent example.)

Most top tier nation states do some version of this; each one has its own style. The Russians are somewhat unusual in that they care less than most who knows or suspects them of this kind of activity.

France does some version or style of derailing Russian trains, you say?

or make it look like it was the Russians so you can get the public on board with a war against Russia?

To achieve what exactly? All the Russians would get from this is BBC warmongering articles and increased resolve of EU politicians.

The latter is desired by Ukraine and by the US, which wants more proxies against Russia.

The only known operation was the Nord Stream sabotage done by Ukraine. I have enough of this. If the US is so desperate to weaken Russia, please attack through the Bering Strait and leave the EU alone.

the US government is owned lock and stock by the Russians. They do not want more proxies, and under Trump, are actively trying to fracture NATO.

Surely there is a lot of Russian-motivated sabotage going on in Europe, but there's another group that might be motivated:

exactly today, a major farmer demonstration was already planned. They way they usually go ahead in the Netherlands is drive with their tractors over the highways towards The Hague, where our government is based. Obviously this leads to massive traffic jams.

A simultaneous disruption of the Dutch railways would add some extra effect to the expected traffic chaos.

A Russian warship fired flares at a Danish military helicopter in international waters in the Baltic sea too.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwn8mjl31p5yo

So today's the yearly presentation of the new budget, with protests expected in several places. Whether this sabotage campaign is (part of a) misguided protest action or something else is yet to be determined.

https://nos.nl/liveblog/2631038-nog-steeds-nieuwe-sabotageac... (Use google translate to read)

https://nos-nl.translate.goog/liveblog/2631038-hooibalen-in-...

That does mean that I would not automatically jump to conclusions about Russia or war or whatever; since much of national public policy is presented today, it's also a popular day to express disagreement, and apparently some farmers had already announced they would be doing so today.

(I'd assume the BBC reporter to be aware that Prinsjesdag is today, and that they'd mention that fact in this article, but apparently not.)

You'll find the answer in who is organizing these groups.

As a european, for the love of god, can we address any single of our concerns by either the national or the supranational government?

It seems as if one ambiguates the other.

It's useful because if an issue is difficult, both levels can disavow responsibility.

in german there is a word for this

Zuständigkeitspingpong

competence table tennis

No, it seems governments can only ignore the concerns then complain the 'alt-right' parties get voted

...or blame russia!

(Some media literally blamed putin because people voted for afd in the recent state election in germany).

Might be related to today's yearly 'Prinsjesdag' in the Netherlands:

The day on which the reigning monarch of the Netherlands addresses a joint session of the States-General of the Netherlands (consisting of the Senate and the House of Representatives) to give the Speech from the Throne (Dutch: Troonrede), similar to the annual State of the Union in the United States or the British State Opening of Parliament. This speech sets out the main features of government policy for the coming parliamentary session.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prinsjesdag

maybe, but it's a step or two up from blocking roads?

Stopping traffic on railways isn't much different from stopping traffic on highways, is it?

Speech from the Throne (Dutch: Troonrede)

Is "troonrede" essentially just the Dutch pronunciation of "Throne read"?

I don't understand. What does this have to do with HN, the typical topics, and the typical users who come here?

By the upvotes - a lot.

International politics is intellectually stimulating.

Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Makes you think. If Russia can get a bunch of teenagers to put pipes on the railway tracks or fly some drones near an airport, then so can AI.

It's not a "bunch of teenagers", a regular pipe won't cause a train to derail, one would need heavy machinery to move that rail in France

Nothing was derailed, they put pipes on the rails that tricked the system into believing there was a train on the track, shutting it down

I would be surprised if it wasn’t by Russia. Russian infrastructure is being systematically destroyed by Ukraine with funding, training, intelligence and materiel from Europe. This is an attempt to discourage European support by disrupting Europeans.

Ockham's razor may be? Big protests are common on Prinsjesdag, particularly when sensitive decisions or policies are made. A local protest organisation is therefore significantly more likely than an organized foreign sabotage. If I were Putin and had foreign agents in the Netherlands I certainly wouldn't expose them this physically.

Likely organized by farmer protest groups (FDF for example) to protest against emission restriction regulation. They are known for their dangerous stunts, including driving their tractors on the highway and spraying manure on government buildings. These actions are tolerated by the Dutch police, which willingly and purposefully refuses to punish these acts.

Farmers and right wing people in all of Europe are actively being disinformed by Russian intelligence service and either wilfully ignores it or too incompetent to realize it.

can you explain how Dutch farmers are being disinformed by Russian intelligence services? I am REALLy curious.

Russia spends a huge amount on manipulating western citizens via the internet, let's not play dumb about that. You may not think that it has any effect, but apparently Russian intelligence does.

It's crazy how much deference is given to farmers compared to every other occupation.

If the garbage men started dumping the contents of garbage bags in public places I bet they will not be given a free pass.

Don't believe everything you read.

This is russian sabotage + russian trolls now trying to make it look like it's something else

I think this deference is largely inspired by the police not knowing how to deal with these huge tractors.

Rubbish. They don't want to. The tractors have license plates, allowing them to be pursued after the fact, and the NL police have firearms if they want to get spicy.

There have been a number of attacks in Europe of the form "deranged person drives vehicle into crowd". I'm sure the police wouldn't sit back and shrug if that was done with a tractor. The vehicle doesn't have magic properties, the driver has police protection.

The protestors tape their license plates. And I'm happy to report Dutch police generally doesn't draw guns on people who are no direct threat.

And how is the "vehicle driven into crowd" even relevant here? Nobody's using these tractors to kill (intentionally), but they're just many and hard to stop.

You can go a long while without your trash being taken away for you.. you can't go very long without food.

Too bad Russia 'had to' go to war in the first place.

"had to go", lol.

Go drink some vodka Vasily.

Russia is not even in the top 20 countries who consume the most alcohol:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/alcohol-c...

Yet the one who is the most proud of it

Putin must be really happy - whatever happens in Europe, he's blamed for it, making him look omnipotent. Most countries would love to have that kind of power.

It’s so much more likely to be the farmers, but it's easier to blame Putin and do nothing about it than it is to stop ruining the farmers and risk angering the cosmopolitan politicians whose votes in the parliament you need.

Putin became a meme. He's almighty and weak at the same time. He's the Zar, Stalin AND Hitler in one person. He's been cloned at least a dozen times but seems to have a grave illness and will die soon. On the one hand it's funny to watch how people are losing their minds over it but on the other it just prevents a clear dialogue and assessment of a politician.

Zero karma and all comments are pro-Russia, anti-EU, and anti-Ukraine.

HN is successful enough to be on the radar of Russian troll factories eh?

Zero karma Yep, that is the high price one must pay for dissenting opinions in a discourse where nuance and discussion no longer exist.

It's the price of regurgitating the most unsophisticated fifth columnist narratives.

The price is far too small. Active propaganda on behalf of a rogue state is an act of war and should be treated as such, IMO.

I don't think he's very happy that his three day "special operation" is approaching five years.

Sad to see so many people here in the comments jump the gun and think of Russia.

Some local context: Today is "prinsjesdag" when the budget is announced. Protests are common, particularly when sensitive decisions are made. There are multiple organized protest movements in the country that have used physical force in the past and some of them had announced protests for today.

Could it be Russia? Yes. But local protests seem significantly more likely. Moreover, if I were Putin I wouldn't expose my foreign agents this physically. I would use them in much more insidious ways such as actually starting or supporting these protest movements. In a similar vein: Could any shooting in the US be caused by foreign agents? Maybe. But usually there is a much simpler explanation; guns and bitterness.

Protests draw attention to your cause. This doesn't draw attention to anything, it is straightforward sabotage. Neither is it in line with how typical protestors operated before.

You are jumping to the assumption that foreign agents wouldn't be exposed, but any willing idiot can be bought to conduct such activity. Recent research in Denmark showed that sabotage comes, most likely, from locals, persuaded by foreign actors.

So two things could be true at once. A local 'protestor', disengaged through some issue (whether climate, farming or anything else), persuaded to join some 'resistance' by anyone.

I don't expect this to be supported by local protesting groups, like FDF or XR, either. Way too risky, media-wise.

It could also be kids doing it "for the lolz", like in slovenia:

https://www.rtvslo.si/crna-kronika/na-zelezniski-progi-iz-ce...

similar thing happened next to a minority area where they put railroad ties (the big wooden things, usually supporting the tracks) on the tracks themselves, and well, that even got politicized for the location reasons.

If this was a protest it would be clear who did it. The farmers' have no incentive to mess with infrastructure without being visible for their cause.

Europeans don't realise how close war is to their homes. Russia won't stop unless it's stopped.

Define Europeans - us Poles absolutely understand the danger. In fact I'd say we're already at war with Russia, the way they attack our democracy, our institutions and politics daily. But someone in Portugal might not see it the same way we do.

Russians are Europeans.

It should be noted that today is Prinsjesdag and the new yearly budget is being presented, or however that is properly translated in english. Especially now that farmers are also lighting hay bales on fire next to highways the most likely explanation is nationals doing this

Checking some other calendars yields:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Nazi_Germany#National_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_Laws#Text_of_the_law...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Days_of_Repentance

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Day_of_Democracy...

Prinsjesdag is held on the third tuesday of september. You are trying to insinuate some weird stuff.

A nationwide railway disruption on September 15th is some weird stuff, my friend

Out of all the ignorant comments in this thread that clearly do not know what is happening in the netherlands and are just assuming wild stuff, you made the most insane one. Congratulations.

Farmers protesting new nitrogen emissions regulation. They are also setting hay bales on fire next to highways. The rail sabotage is relatively harmless, the tracks use block signalling so if you use a conductive metal bar or jumper cables to connect the rails, the system thinks a train is present and the preceding signal will stay red.

The harm is in the cost. Not the actual danger. Or are they going to pay for the damages caused due to lost productivity?

I'm starting to be a little worried about what Putin has planned for Europe.

Came for the news for nerds, got a blog from the BBC propaganda machine.

Anyway, I am surprised the BBC blogger didn't add north koreans and some linked it to porn on the internet.

the railway was hacked with a metal tube... perfectly suited news

pre-coffee and I kept reading that as "sabotage causes major Neanderthal rail disruption"

I was like hmmmm what timeline am I in now?

Robert J. Sawyer's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neanderthal_Parallax

This is getting concerning. Multiple locations and deliberate disruption suggest this may be more than random vandalism. Hopefully investigators find out who is behind it and why.

Oh, these wannabe intellectualist.

Russians been messing with your elections, blowing up factories, inducing illegal immigration, destroying infrastructure and openly threatening to turn Europe into a radioactive dust. Meanwhile people: "hopefully investigators find out".

Seriously, this is ridiculous

Europeans really hates sabotage when it happens to them. Nobody blinked an eye when Nord Stream (a civilian infrastructure) was blown up.

FYI Nord Stream had one end in Germany, which happens to be in Europe. So Nord Stream was driving oil to Europe, and some Europeans mattered.

Russia is at war with Europe.

Europe is not yet at war with Russia but it will be in time.

Why do people automatically jump to conclusion that it was Russia in the comments? They haven't even released any evidence or investigation yet in official sense.

Surprisingly few people mentioning that AI might be the culprit here?