- 5comments
- 20comments
- 9comments
- 32comments
- 180comments
- 137comments
- 12comments
- 100comments
- 798comments
- 58comments
- 1026comments
- 3comments
- 58comments
- —discuss
- 5comments
- 263comments
- 412comments
- 3comments
- 47comments
- 226comments
- 156comments
- 557comments
- 171comments
- 63comments
- 529comments
- 156comments
- 31comments
- 117comments
- 415comments
- 100comments
I agree with this post. I’ve never found the GitHub wiki experience to be particularly ergonomic. I don’t have any issues with it, but it’s no more convenient than a simple /docs folder. And from there, it’s almost trivial to turn /docs into GitHub pages. Similar effort for a much better end product.
Wikis typically connote distributed, anonymous edits. This feature is partially covered by git already.
That's because the original sin of GitHub "wikis" is that they weren't (and most of them still aren't) even wikis. There's this perverse thing that happened during the wiki age, where people unable or unwilling to get on board decided to just start calling things "wikis" even though they exemplify the very thing that the wiki was invented as a response to. The reckless debasing of the word then infected adjacent spaces. Sourcehut's "read-only wikis" (wat) aren't even designed to be edited in the browser; on Sourcehut, "Publishing your changes is as easy as committing them and pushing them upstream." Newsflash: That's not a wiki.
Yeah you can configure gh “wikis” to be freely editable but that’s not the default and most of them are not,
Biggest thing for me is wiki edits skip code review, so docs rot silently while a /docs PR at least shows up in the diff next to the change.
Indeed, and also now with agents everywhere the docs can be updated and checked more regularly. If it's in the wiki, you can clone it locally and put an AGENTS.md line informing of where the docs are, but it's still a separate repo to deal with. Credit where due, it was a revolution (even a godsend) in it's time, but at this point I agree a /docs is better.
im having trouble connecting the dots here. How does adding the friction of code review reduce rot?
You can spot a code change without a docs change or vice versa
Fossil (https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/index.wiki) solves this pretty nicely. You can have documentation as files or in a special wiki namespace and it's versioned both ways, and every repository clone gets everything. Even better than that, your in-tree documentation files are rendered and browseable in exactly the same way as the dedicated wiki namespace.
The linked URL to the home page there can even serve as an example: the "trunk" is a check-in name (https://fossil-scm.org/home/doc/trunk/www/checkin_names.wiki) that points to the newest check-in on the "trunk" branch. You can replace it with any other reference to get the old version; eg, version-2.20 would work to get the version 2.20 of the docs, 2015-03-14 would work to get the version from 14 March 2015, etc.
Why is this easier or more effective than just a /docs directory?
Parent comment linked to that answer.
You absolutely can use "just a /docs" directory in Fossil. You can even point the web server to /doc/trunk/docs/index.md or whatever other file names you want. :-)
Fossil is the best. Sqlite uses it
Fossil was written for Sqlite in the same way that git was written for Linux. It's really a shame that more projects don't use it. I think that a github competitor (with social features, PRs, CI, etc) with a fossil backend would be very popular.
Interesting because I just added a wiki for one of my projects. I'm not using it for docs, since the project already has in-tree docs. I'm using it more as a public scratchpad of ideas / experiments to try that aren't well-defined enough (or known to be worth) opening as an issue yet.
In my experience, the docs for something like setting up a dev env are typically greatly improved by the second person who sets up the dev env, not the personal who originally wrote the docs.
In that case, when the docs are not associated with a code change, you want to make getting those improvements into the docs as frictionless as possible, otherwise the changes aren't going to get made.
Personally, I've found that making docs updates incredibly fast + easy to be far more valuable than anything you get from forcing doc changes through the full SDLC process. If someone has feedback on your docs changes they would have shared in a review, they can just update the docs instead.
You can set up automation and/or configuration such that changes to the docs folder don't require code review.
That could be easily be corrected by relaxing merge gates for changes only to the `docs` folder (or some suitable naming pattern).
You can even do live edits on the web if you don't want to use a command line.
Corrections and improvements to docs are just a bugfix though?
In my experience, this is also true of a lot of code as well. Your dev scripts should probably have much more relaxed standards than your service source or CI/CD. Ideally I could define merge requirements by directory without doing some weird shenanigans with the CODEOWNERS file and a bot.
i was going to say the biggest reason wasn't mentioned here, that github sets Disallow: /*/wiki*
however I think maybe this has changed? I don't see it in https://github.com/robots.txt now
They're not indexed if they're publicly editable
also the repo needs 500+ stars https://docs.github.com/en/communities/documenting-your-proj...
It also needs to be non publically editable.
In other words, spiritually not a wiki.
It's likely also better that agents seeing versioned /docs can understand the context of changes to the codebase better.
nit: ”Using the /docs folder is the highest effort-to-reward ratio option” shouldn’t it be lowest or reward-to-effort instead?
In Forgejo, wikis are just another repo, so you have versioning there.
That's also true on GitHub: https://docs.github.com/en/communities/documenting-your-proj...
and on GitLab: https://docs.gitlab.com/user/project/wiki/
It sounds like the whole argument here is that the commits in the docs repo aren't identical commits in the source code repo. But you can ameliorate that with something like tags or submodules. And it's also inherently true of any project with more than one repo, too.
Duh.
The Github wiki is pretty bad. However had, it is easier to use than issues and coordinating them. Github issues require too much cross-communication and not everyone has the time to meta-coordinate many different issues in many different projects. A wiki lowers the entry-barrier too, so the idea of a wiki is, in principle, good.
If I were Github I would improve the wiki, a bit stylistically, to make it more visually pleasing to use (but not much, those designers always go overboard when making changes in my experience), but much more importantly so, to make the wiki a more flexible addition, including API-wise, usage examples, documentation and so forth. People can, in principle, do so on their own, but also from experience, most people stop doing so after a while, and then the wiki decays into outdated information. That's bad too. Spawning more issues to manage the wiki also does not work well.
In Gitlab the wiki is just a separate git repo. Is this not the case with GitHub?
It is. Although it’s a hidden git repo with none of the GitHub tooling.
I really wanted the wiki to at minimum have directories so they would be easier to structure and allow even for major versions that are maintained in parallel.
The second paragraph neatly triggered my confirmation bias:
The initial version of this post opened with “You can use the wiki or a docs folder for your GitHub project, both are valid choices” but as I wrote more, I realised that there is a single reason to use a wiki, and many more reasons not to use the wiki. So many in fact, that I consider using the wiki on GitHub is an anti-pattern.
A very straightforward example of McCulloch's quote that "Writing is thinking."
Yes, and the rest of it is too; there's another outage today and my CI is blocked. I guess I can read the wikis while I wait, eh?? https://www.githubstatus.com/
You own it now, I'll quote you on that!
(2022)
I've never understood why people even _generate_ from the docs folder. If you've written it in markdown (which they nearly always do) then it's already rendered properly in Github. Or is it because they then publish those docs somewhere else?
I think generation helps with content and structure that GitHub Markdown does not support, as well as having a dedicated (and brandable) website.
An example:
- source: https://github.com/eslint/eslint/blob/main/docs/src/rules/no...
- rendered: https://eslint.org/docs/latest/rules/no-control-regex
This is a very simple example, you can see how the code blocks are highlighted better and slightly interactive.
A lot of GitHub’s secondary features are like this. The Issues tab and Discussions tab are so similar, with slightly different feature sets. And users will happily use both for feature requests and bug reports, with varying degrees of quality, so then I just have yet another thing to stay on top of. I think Discussions were made to reduce noise in very busy repos, but I generally find something useful in the noise. It’s really just a way to ignore users. As a result, I always turn off Discussions and just let people file issues when they feel it’s appropriate.
I agree, but my only gripe is I hate the ceremony required for doc-only updates. It needs a review and CI. The review is a good thing in most cases (want your docs to be correct), but that often takes my team like two days (I'm realizing this is likely our fault now that I'm typing this). For CI, I've just added in a step to all our GitHub actions to skip Markdown only changes. Anyone have any better ideas?
Use CODEOWNERS files to route docs/ reviews differently.
We're small enough of a team that everyone can review anything (with a bit of domain expertise in there). It's less of an issue of who is reviewing and more of an issue of getting anyone to spend a minute to look at it. More of a human problem. Would be curious what people to do remedy this.
The last paragraph says: > At some point your docs will outgrow a single folder, and then all bets are off. You’ll want a separate repo with its own build process...
My question is, why is this taken as a given? Is it so hard to have docs and code live together in version control after a certain scale? If so, what is the specific problem and what is the cause?
I ask because I've never been that satisfied with the various ways I've tried to organize projects in git. Recently I've been trying to keep the source, tests and docs together in the same tree so that changes are more localized. It seems to be helping me keep track of things, especially with coding agents so eager to make changes all over the place. I find their proclivity to repeat the same idea in multiple locations (agent instructions, docs, docstrings, help strings, comments) especially problematic.
I also put everything in one repo nowadays, no matter the usage, the language etc. All is synced, and all is accessible by my LLM. There are a lot of tools to manage monorepos, and frankly most of the time you don't even need them.
Managers and others won't touch the repo. (Sometimes it's better the don't...)
I think there is a missing pro here on the wiki side: trivial edits are trivial. Even fixing a typo in the docs directory requires PR + approvals + CI. Effectively limiting your docs contributors to folks who are comfortable with a code editor, and git, is a decision
Forcing CI and approvals on changes to docs/ is a decision
Entertainingly, excluding a directory from PR approvals is not an option GitHub provides out of the box
I'm no fan of GitHub add-ons and I agree with the premise here but...
I can think of one other possibility. It's easier to write in a wiki via the browser. I can open that on my phone and edit docs. I can open it in my browser and edit docs.
On desktop it's a tiny bit more to pull the repo and open it in your editor (and you might already be there) but that tiny bit can be enough to stop you from writing documentation. For me, writing documentation must be totally painless so that I'll actually do it.
Why am I not a fan of the add-ons like PR's, wiki's, discussions, projects, and issues? Because they each introduce vendor lock-in to varying degrees.
You can edit single files in most git forges and it will open a pull request for you, the workflow is not that bad.
GitHub is pretty good about editing on the web. Markdown files can be edited straight from github.com. On desktop you can hit the period key to directly open the repo in vscode.dev. Technically on mobile you can change github.com to github.dev to do the same, though the editing experience is worse than directly editing on GitHub.
To consider, there are different docs:
in repo (can be wiki format):
- dev docs
- user manual
different repo:
- community usage wiki
https://github-wiki-see.page/
I've been trying for years to get the contents indexed, accessible to search engines or even AI. When I started, no wiki was ever indexed but it seems GitHub backed off a bit since then. Still, there's a bunch that is still not indexed for various reasons with valuable data in them.
I do agree, most users should look into docs instead.
The section “How about the reasons not to use the wiki?” is written rather confusingly. It mixes points that apply to the wiki (“The documentation isn’t available locally when someone clones your repo”) and points that apply when not using the wiki (“Documentation edits get the same treatment as code”) without making it clear which one is which – you have to infer it yourself.
Not many people know that the github wiki is actually backed by a separate "hidden" repo, and can be accessed by adding .wiki to the repo url, e.g. https://github.com/lionleaf/dwitter.wiki.git
Apparently it can even do CI stuff. Still wouldn't recommend it though, for the other reasons outlined in TFA and this thread.
It leads to a 404 page on my end.
I seem to recall that GHE allowed you at one point to point a Wiki to a /docs or /docs/wiki subdirectory. I still don't know why that never became a public GitHub.com feature. Sure it is technically redundant with the file browser if you know how to use the view controls and don't mind the UI sprawl of the file browser, but I still think it would be a good feature.
2. Non-technical people can work with tools they know.
3. You may not want to deal with pull, push, merge for every edit.
4. You may not want to deal with PRs for every edit.
5. Setting up `/docs` takes work. Wikis are just there.
Mintlify and others turned this sort of convenience into a business.