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    —discuss

The Mafia may be keeping fentanyl out of Italy

49 pointsby 1h agoeconomist.com
35 comments
46m agoHN ↗

Or, they may not. TL;DR correlation is not causation.

34m agoHN ↗

Found the mafia. ;)

These comments are oddly common, but I've never understood the value of simply repeating the definition of uncertainty words like "may." Who is being informed here?

18m agoHN ↗

Not every correlation deserves to be published in the press. If you think about it, it is weird that they even make articles out of statements that only "may" be true.

15m agoHN ↗

It is a matter of thresholds, of consequential bets over provisional non-trivial assessments, and of journalistic duty (taking note - the idea is not from the analyst but from sources; journalists take note that sources made statements).

Analysts work speculatively. And the results of the speculation are not trivial when supported by strong elements.

34m agoHN ↗

What do you think may means

edit: What do you think other people think that may means

21m agoHN ↗

I think it means just that, which is why I used TL;DR? The article points out the correlation between mafia prevalence and lack of fentanyl overdoses and some speculation on whether those two things are connected.

32m agoHN ↗

TL;DR: ‘Correlation is not causation’ does not mean ‘correlation tells us nothing about causation.’

28m agoHN ↗

There is one "access free" paragraph in the page... "Police are coming to the conclusion".

45m agoHN ↗

Did wastewater drug monitoring for a while, and the annoying bit was fentanyl metabolites sitting near the detection limit, so absence isn't proof.

24m agoHN ↗

Was that because there wasn't much fentanyl use or because fentanyl metabolites are somehow harder to detect?

20m agoHN ↗

I assume drugs that are potent in tiny quantities leave less metabolites.

23m agoHN ↗

From what I understand this uses overdose numbers. They should also not be assumed to be comparable across countries (recording practices vary widely), but if they tell the same story as wastewater monitoring there may be something to it.

5m agoHN ↗

Does wastewater drug monitoring account / offset for constipation caused by drug use?

There isn't anything to measure if the poop is unable to leave the end-user.

39m agoHN ↗

"For years I paid my people extra so they wouldn't do that kind of business. Somebody comes to them and says, 'I have powders; if you put up three, four thousand dollar investment, we can make fifty thousand distributing.' So they can't resist. I want to control it as a business, to keep it respectable. I don't want it near schools! I don't want it sold to children! That's an infamia."

When AI can write screenplays like this one, then it's game over.

27m agoHN ↗

the internet is full of let-me-tell-you-a-quick-story like this one. so AI can and nothing is over, ma dude. nothing will ever be over.

25m agoHN ↗

Expand? This is part of plot to The Godfather. Not what you'd call exotic, I'd think?

37m agoHN ↗

Feels like they caught up to internet archive being used to circumvent paywalls. Unfortunate.

31m agoHN ↗

I'm no expert, but I've always thought that adding much more risk to the lives of your customers unnecessarily is not good for business.

23m agoHN ↗

Soon after John Stewart Mill we assessed that markets are not perfect.

Accelerations in the different directions of bounded incentives create as-if Brownian motions, - not the stability towards optimality of a perfect organic model.

Or: what you write is rational, but people are easily not... The supply side should disappear from the market when irrational, but changes are slow..

15m agoHN ↗

When the risk is the benefit things get weird

14m agoHN ↗

They still traffic heroin though, which is not stellar for customer's life expectancy.

7m agoHN ↗

Junk food dont have a chance to kill a person on first try or high chances to kill them withih a year or so.

13m agoHN ↗

If its cheap enough to be worth letting a few customers churn, then profits will be positive

7m agoHN ↗

You just need to keep your customers alive long enough.

70% of food in the supermarket is ultra processed. But as long as people make it to 65 years old they are still good customers. That is still 50 years of sales.

5m agoHN ↗

And: shaking the scene in a way that will attracts too much attention, including crackdowns, is very bad for business.

31m agoHN ↗

This was the way it worked up here (in QC) with the 81s. If you sold shit that could draw attention to you, your organization or suppliers, you were swiftly taught not to. They had decent quality control, but as their grip slipped so did quality. Now we get fentanyl overdoses weekly.

20m agoHN ↗

81 = Hells Angels

Who these days are more a front org for the CCP/triads who seem to be running much of the criminal underworld in Canada with their network of smuggling and money laundering.

My theory is that the CCP/triads leveraged drug addiction within the HA and killed anyone that objected, and everyone else got rich...

10m agoHN ↗

There's been a criminal civil war raging between HAs and every other smaller org that wants to expand (look at Blood Family Mafia specifically, Arab Power as well). HAs have lost some feathers in pretty gruesome ways. They're all older and neglected to replenish the ranks in order to preserve prestige. Street gangs didn't. If I'm competing in that world, I'm funding the underdogs until leadership trembles, then we make a deal. I believe we're at that point now. All those groups - including the Sicilians - have all been slowly invalidated and Angels are appearing more stable/powerful these days (even though we just outlawed their colours - but even that gives them prestige).

17m agoHN ↗

I googled so y'all don't have to: "QC" means Quebec. 81 means Hell's Angels as per sister comment.

6m agoHN ↗

I'll be honest, this was helpful for me even as someone who lives about 2km from the Quebec border. I was uncertain as you don't often see it in the Hacker News context.

12m agoHN ↗

Why not goverment "is keeping fentanyl out of italy"?

If you would sell unaproved medication during covid, you would get several years in prison.

Why someone who sells unapproved medication without prescription, gets released and can keep selling this stuff? Medication thst kills people!!!

12m agoHN ↗

I'm afraid some crime syndicates have found out they can just steal it from hospitals, some 80 vials went missing from the ospedale israelitico in Rome during the summer and there are already reports of an increase of users in the outskirts of the city..