Maybe the author was unlucky and the responding unit was corrupt. They thought he was a rich guy, so maybe they were trying to ask for a bribe, without coming out and saying it in case he had a hidden cell phone recording audio?
No bribe, they give you as much brutality and poor treatment as they think they can get away with.
Then again, bribing the police is probably a crime worth a really long sentence, so I wouldn't have risked it even if I'd had the money.
Even attempting to directly bribe a police officer in the USA is going to get you thrown in jail fast. It's far less risky as a police officer to over-zealously write tickets for the smallest thing and commit bogus asset forfeiture left and right than to directly ask for bribes.
And this is one of a couple of reasons why, despite my generally pleasant experiences with the US, it would take an extraordinarily good opportunity to get me to live there. I am scared of your seemingly unaccountable quasi-military police.
The solution to the situation presented to the author of this article was, of course, simple: do whatever the people with guns say. Don't talk back. Don't make eye contact. Wait until it's over and hope it doesn't get worse.
But maybe sometimes I won't do that. And maybe then this will happen to me.
I agree. The amount that law enforcement in the US seem to get away with is quite staggering.
I can understand the night prison officers actions a bit better than the arresting officers, as from their perspective, everyone they have in the cells has already been deemed to be a menace of some sort and it's not their place to get into who is right and wrong. But from this account, it seems there's nothing this guy did to deserve any of the shit the arresting officers put him through.
What happened to the cyclist? Did she get arrested for staining the street with her blood? Or causing a public nuisance?
The saddest part is not that the bad cops have a free run. It's that nobody even thinks about it until it happens to them. Any measure designed to restrict this abuse would fail popular vote, because cops are the good guys. Any politician wishing to rein in the police unions would commit political suicide. There are millions of guys like the OP, and none of them would think to vote against promotion of something like POBAR - until POBAR-protected police stomps on their hands. Too late then.
I'm no expert, but shouldn't he have requested a lawyer? That would seem to be the legal system's prescribed defense against this. It may not have worked any better, but it seems like an oversight.
Just wondering, why not file a civil complaint against the officers as well and then you can use the discovery process to get the results of the POBAR complaint?
You're referring to the side of the story told by the police and jail officials.
In criminal law, their side of the story comes out as their testimony in the trial. In criminal defense practices, their testimony is known as "testilying". The juries eat it up-- after all, we should trust the cops, right?
The fact that there is a "second side" does not mean that the second side is true, valid, or not-fabricated for the convenience of the police.
Sure there's a second side. I'm sure there's a very valid reason to stomp on one's hands and keep one in 12-hour solitary confinement after roughing up, interjected with strip searches and various abuse - as a punishment for calling 911. And she shouldn't have worn that outfit if she wasn't looking for trouble.
This is what happens when police officers get confused about their job. Their job is to serve and protect, but sometimes they think their job is to pound down the nails.
Looks like another episode of the aggressive police state flaring up and hurting a citizen with their transcendentally puerile inferiority-complex driven thuggery. We'll see more of this as the economic conditions deteriorate and police militarization continues to ramp up. I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of normal people are more or less in fear of the police, with more becoming fearful every day. This is a problem without an easy solution.
It'd be great if we could hammer down the officers/departments that conduct themselves in this way by firing and charging the officers in question, but there's no political appetite for it. The complaints process isn't going to accomplish anything-- I think the author knows that very well by now.
I suggest complaining to the mayor or trying to round up some sort of political action campaign flush with cash. Donate to candidates who campaign on being tough on cops. Make it a campaign issue.
It's either that, or be left with this infuriating feeling of helplessness and disgust.
It's already been said, but again: DON'T TALK TO COPS.
THIS is why you don't talk to cops. Remember all those people that said "what if you're not the person they're looking for? What if you see an accident?"
This is what happened. Do you understand yet? If you have to talk to cops, despite everything you've now read or heard, then talk to them as little as possible. Follow their orders and get the hell away. The cop told him to leave. He should have left. His civic duty was done at that point.
That is something I had not considered. But what can you do about it?
Maybe the author was unlucky and the responding unit was corrupt. They thought he was a rich guy, so maybe they were trying to ask for a bribe, without coming out and saying it in case he had a hidden cell phone recording audio?
No bribe, they give you as much brutality and poor treatment as they think they can get away with.
Then again, bribing the police is probably a crime worth a really long sentence, so I wouldn't have risked it even if I'd had the money.
Even attempting to directly bribe a police officer in the USA is going to get you thrown in jail fast. It's far less risky as a police officer to over-zealously write tickets for the smallest thing and commit bogus asset forfeiture left and right than to directly ask for bribes.
Coincidentally, I (the author) have had experience bribing officials in countries where it's not against the social norm: http://www.offsilkroadin.com/2009/11/the-last-hurdle/
And this is one of a couple of reasons why, despite my generally pleasant experiences with the US, it would take an extraordinarily good opportunity to get me to live there. I am scared of your seemingly unaccountable quasi-military police.
The solution to the situation presented to the author of this article was, of course, simple: do whatever the people with guns say. Don't talk back. Don't make eye contact. Wait until it's over and hope it doesn't get worse.
But maybe sometimes I won't do that. And maybe then this will happen to me.
I agree. The amount that law enforcement in the US seem to get away with is quite staggering.
I can understand the night prison officers actions a bit better than the arresting officers, as from their perspective, everyone they have in the cells has already been deemed to be a menace of some sort and it's not their place to get into who is right and wrong. But from this account, it seems there's nothing this guy did to deserve any of the shit the arresting officers put him through.
What happened to the cyclist? Did she get arrested for staining the street with her blood? Or causing a public nuisance?
The saddest part is not that the bad cops have a free run. It's that nobody even thinks about it until it happens to them. Any measure designed to restrict this abuse would fail popular vote, because cops are the good guys. Any politician wishing to rein in the police unions would commit political suicide. There are millions of guys like the OP, and none of them would think to vote against promotion of something like POBAR - until POBAR-protected police stomps on their hands. Too late then.
I'm no expert, but shouldn't he have requested a lawyer? That would seem to be the legal system's prescribed defense against this. It may not have worked any better, but it seems like an oversight.
Just wondering, why not file a civil complaint against the officers as well and then you can use the discovery process to get the results of the POBAR complaint?
Yup, I am sure there isn't a second side of this story.
You're referring to the side of the story told by the police and jail officials.
In criminal law, their side of the story comes out as their testimony in the trial. In criminal defense practices, their testimony is known as "testilying". The juries eat it up-- after all, we should trust the cops, right?
The fact that there is a "second side" does not mean that the second side is true, valid, or not-fabricated for the convenience of the police.
Sure there's a second side. I'm sure there's a very valid reason to stomp on one's hands and keep one in 12-hour solitary confinement after roughing up, interjected with strip searches and various abuse - as a punishment for calling 911. And she shouldn't have worn that outfit if she wasn't looking for trouble.
This is what happens when police officers get confused about their job. Their job is to serve and protect, but sometimes they think their job is to pound down the nails.
Too bad nobody ever told them that.
Looks like another episode of the aggressive police state flaring up and hurting a citizen with their transcendentally puerile inferiority-complex driven thuggery. We'll see more of this as the economic conditions deteriorate and police militarization continues to ramp up. I think it's pretty safe to say that a lot of normal people are more or less in fear of the police, with more becoming fearful every day. This is a problem without an easy solution.
It'd be great if we could hammer down the officers/departments that conduct themselves in this way by firing and charging the officers in question, but there's no political appetite for it. The complaints process isn't going to accomplish anything-- I think the author knows that very well by now.
I suggest complaining to the mayor or trying to round up some sort of political action campaign flush with cash. Donate to candidates who campaign on being tough on cops. Make it a campaign issue.
It's either that, or be left with this infuriating feeling of helplessness and disgust.
I feel for this guy but:
Lots of talking to cops here. Don't talk to cops.
Lots of rights-demanding. We don't know how aggressive he was with it. If the cops think you are a threat, then who is going to change their mind?
Several counts of not doing what a cop says. Do what a cop says.
Just saying he could have saved himself a lot of grief.
It's already been said, but again: DON'T TALK TO COPS.
THIS is why you don't talk to cops. Remember all those people that said "what if you're not the person they're looking for? What if you see an accident?"
This is what happened. Do you understand yet? If you have to talk to cops, despite everything you've now read or heard, then talk to them as little as possible. Follow their orders and get the hell away. The cop told him to leave. He should have left. His civic duty was done at that point.
Just as of now 695 comments are here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7233730