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US jury says Apple owes record $5.7B in haptic technology patent case

28 pointsby 1h agoreuters.com
20 comments
1h agoHN ↗

That’s not chump change, even if it’s ~1.5% of Apple’s yearly revenue…

I wonder what it’ll be like after appeal.

1h agoHN ↗

Wow, that's a lot of money for a little buzz. I mean what could possibly be such sacred knowledge that a vibration could even be patentable.

You spin a unbalanced thing in a circle and it creates a vibration. Make it less unbalanced and you get a smoother vibration.

1h agoHN ↗

Why do people cry foul like they've lost a limb when OpenAI steals Apple IP, but then shirk away from condemning Apple stealing Taction or Masimo's IP?

The community has to pick a lane. Either IP theft is good and promotes competition, or IP theft is bad and we have to apply the law equally.

1h agoHN ↗

I need more details which the article doesn't provide but I'm pretty sure vibration is common knowledge and what could the design possibly done that was so patentable

1h agoHN ↗

Goomba fallacy, they're not the same people

48m agoHN ↗

Like the parent wrote: one “patent” is a miniature vibrator, something like those found in cheap sex toys, the other consists of poaching people working on the frontiers of knowledge, corrupting them to steal such unique ideas for money.

Tell me you’re not so thick

45m agoHN ↗

The community has to pick a lane.

There isn’t one mind. We are unique individuals with different opinions. Opinions of an individual can even be contradictory!

44m agoHN ↗

The whole patent system sucks. It has nothing to do with reality.

The aspect of "you are granted a monopoly on a technology for a period of time" is something that is especially bad.

41m agoHN ↗

That little buzz feels like a click on my Air's trackpad and like a tap on my iPhone's keyboard. Any other vibration thingy I came across feels like a vibration thingy, not like a click, not a tap.

As nobody else seems to care or is able to build the same, maybe it is worth a dollar or two. Though 5.7B is a bit much.

10m agoHN ↗

A dollar or two? Per device that infringes?

Apple has sold over 3 billion iPhones and 4.5 billion iPhones, iPads, and iPods together.

$5.7B seems low if every one of those devices infringes.

35m agoHN ↗

The thing that is patentable isn't "a vibration". It's the exact, specific means through which you produce that vibration.

We've gone from completely dumb eccentric rotating mass vibration to trackpads that you'd swear are actually physically clicking, or the Ice Cubes demo in in Nintendo's 1-2-Switch[0], both of which use linear resonant actuators. Those actuators are themselves a complex enough piece of technology to warrant a patent, and the techniques to simulate the feel or real physical objects using those actuators are pretty damn non-trivial as well.

As a general rule, I find that the patent system is problematic but, within the scope of the system as it exists today, these are perfectly reasonable things to patent.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtlqvVfk1-Q

7m agoHN ↗

trackpads that you'd swear are actually physically clicking

Like my Mac's trackpad ? Can someone ELI5 how it works ? It's gotta be magic-adjacent cos when the machine locks up, the trackpad is deader than a doornail.

34m agoHN ↗

from the article, Taction themselves agreed Apple's tech was different :

"Apple's Taptic Engine is fundamentally different from Taction's technology, which Taction's own testing of Apple's products confirmed during trial," Apple said in response

25m agoHN ↗

Just because apple provides a (likely) self-serving statement, doesn't mean it is accurate. Evidently the jury found it to not be convincing

21m agoHN ↗

Yeah but they claim it still infringes on the patent and the jury accepted Taction’s infringement case. Im curious of the outcome in the end.

34m agoHN ↗

I'm interested in reading more information as it comes out, but a lot of the comments claiming it's "just vibrations" are being a bit reductionist. These devices are controlled by complex algorithms, and they take a lot of time and money to create. Why shouldn't this company enjoy the same IP protections that Apple enjoys on their work?

21m agoHN ↗

My issue with stuff like this is their work is not worth $6 billion dollars. Yes it takes time to develop this stuff but it isn't ground-breaking work and isn't especially novel. A room of experienced engineers, given the same constraints, would likely be able to come to the same design conclusions without much time or expense. Patents in general have this problem. A lot of it is a race to patent as much obvious and fringe-not-immediately-useful-today stuff as possible and it unfortunately works a lot of the time.